Ranking leaderboard manipulation on NA Server

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Mongbat
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Re: Ranking leaderboard manipulation on NA Server

Post by Mongbat » Sun Mar 13, 2016 10:32 am

Speaking about the guild, you would know the rate at which free accounts are being opened and build guilds far exceed what I can accurately detect/report. I rather wish the devs focus their time on working on expansion pack for the orc shaman than spent their time looking into these accounts. Besides, the purpose of the guild conquer is to farm gold, and whoever these free users are not doing any significant harm, at least in my opinion. However, I will not get into the same act with them even if they ask me to join their guild cause.
Last edited by Mongbat on Mon Mar 28, 2016 5:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

1mb4k4
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Re: Ranking leaderboard manipulation on NA Server

Post by 1mb4k4 » Mon Mar 14, 2016 12:29 am

Hi,

Thank you very much for elevating the problem so action can be taken!
I will try to answer to all your questions and complaints, please correct me if i miss something.

@Mongbat
Sorry about this situation.
I think this was some sort of a troll attempt. I dealt with it.
The user accounts you reported belong to the same person and are suspended.
Regarding the Shaman. We are on the final stage working on the story and the campaigns, everything else is ready. It will arrive soon, we are very dedicated to this :)

@soulblighter
"Making traffic" statement does not make sense in the context of a free, indie game with no advertising or publisher ...
You see, I just want players to enjoy the game. Yes, many players create multiple accounts for various reasons. When I catch cheaters, I punish. That's it. Please, report any players who are acting strange! :)

@Motylek
"The Ranking System" is a ranking for the challenge and arena battles. For all other game modes you have different rankings and systems. So this is not a global ranking reflecting every aspect of multiplayer in the game.
The current system is tested, tweaked and tuned and is well tested. Personally i think it is fair. I never underestimate the creativity of cheaters and trolls, so they will always find a new way to do damage. :)
Changes were made so such trolling attempts are harder now.

Regards,

1mb4k4
Posts: 376
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In-game user name: 1mb4k4

Re: Ranking leaderboard manipulation on NA Server

Post by 1mb4k4 » Mon Mar 14, 2016 4:23 pm

After further investigation some other things came out.

First of which are that the -Rey Edeus- on the EU server was created by Mongbat.

@Mongbat
You also have multiple accounts (and i know and have always known which are they) and you are trying to create accounts which contain the word "Turko". You guys have some sort of a conflict between each other. You should really stop acting like retards!

Regards,

Motylek
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Re: Ranking leaderboard manipulation on NA Server

Post by Motylek » Mon Mar 14, 2016 8:25 pm

That is pretty disgusting. I was also suspecting that accounts like "Turko Ranking Leader Cheating Master" and other "Turko impersonating" accounts were created by Mongbat, but I could not understand why somebody "fighting against free accounts" would create them, so I suppressed that suspection in me. Now, I am really disapointed. :-(

Motylek
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Re: Ranking leaderboard manipulation on NA Server

Post by Motylek » Fri Mar 18, 2016 9:02 am

1mb4k4 wrote:The current system is tested, tweaked and tuned and is well tested. Personally i think it is fair.
Well, original system was even worse and it was adjusted to current system because of my suggestion. Now it is better than it was originally about 2 years ago or so, but I still do not find it perfect. Current system works well in case when "favor is equal", when "favored player is also higher in rank" than other player and when "disfavored player is also lower in rank" than other player. In other cases, it is not optimal. I personally think, that position in rank should be more important than favor.

If low ranked player is good, favor is only delaying him unnecessarily from getting to proper place in ranking. If high ranked player is not so good, disfavor is unfairly helping him to stay at top and he is keeping place that is rightfully belonging to somebody else.

Also high favor of my heroes is reason why I can not get Delusion Crusher Achievement, because I can not meet player who is favored to win with me and is on similar level. I could get it only if I will start losing on purpose or play unfavorable matchups like Keeper versus Archer or Archer versus Orc etc, where it is "uphill battle". Or at least please do something that makes favor desireable, because in game it is bringing only negative association and instead disfavor is positive because it helps getting more score points.

Stylish way would be something like castle lady giving her scarf to her favorite knight or so. :-) At example making ladder of the most favorable heroes in game, who played at least 100 challenges/arena fights (to avoid unrealistic favor rank position for heroes who won 10 of 10 fights) and give them something similar to golden star for being in TOP 100 ranking. 100 duels is just first shot, it could be any reasonable number ... 200 ... 300, anything you find suitable.

Thank you for considering it
Motylek

1mb4k4
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Re: Ranking leaderboard manipulation on NA Server

Post by 1mb4k4 » Sun Mar 20, 2016 11:59 am

You have a point.

Both the favor and the current ranking position play a role in determining the score reward.
If high ranked player is not so good, disfavor is unfairly helping him to stay at top and he is keeping place that is rightfully belonging to somebody else.
This is not correct as when you are disfavored to win you will get a bonus score when winning. When you are lower in ranking you will also get a bonus score.

The Delusion Crusher achievement has been added more recently. It should be achieved by new rapidly growing heroes.
By being an experienced/old player it expected that it is hard to get. Still there are players which are stronger that you. You should attempt to face them. Yes, you may need to rise some levels.

Motylek
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Re: Ranking leaderboard manipulation on NA Server

Post by Motylek » Sun Mar 20, 2016 2:30 pm

Why is that not correct? (Of course if I do not see why, it does not mean it is not true, just I would like to kindly ask about explanation.)
If player who is in top ranking, but he is with bad favor, he needs to win less duels than players with good favor to keep his position and also because of bad favor he is losing less score points so both winning and losing is generous to him to keep top position. Just look at TOP3 players and their win/lose ratio and think how hard it would be for them to keep that position if they would not have help of disfavor. I do not have anything personal against TOP3 players, I just do not consider ranking system fair. You can not deny, they all have relatively not so good favor and it is playing significant role in keeping them at TOP3.

If new rapidly growing player keeps winning from start, he also can not get Delusion Crusher achievement. It makes no difference between player being good from start or being already veteran. They both would have to make losses on purpose to get that achievement. I do not deny there could be players stronger than me, but problem is that I would be probably favored in duel with them and that is what I am all the time pointing out. Why should I duel with somebody who could be presumably stronger than me, when I will be favored in duel with him and thus I will get less points for duel win and lose more points for duel loss? It is another example where only rank position would give good evaluation, but favor would not.

Anyway, what do you think about my idea of TOP100 favor ranking similar to TOP100 score ranking? Also it would be interesting to compare those 2 ladders. Do you think that TOP3 players from current score ranking would even fit into TOP100 favor ranking? I guess, only Ali would maybe make into TOP100 favor ranking.

Motylek

Caerold
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Re: Ranking leaderboard manipulation on NA Server

Post by Caerold » Sun Apr 24, 2016 1:45 am

What has always bothered me is that I tend to have a very high win percentage but don't get to play a lot of games. The favor system penalizes me a lot by always marking me favored (based on my win percentage) and I get a lot fewer ranking points and have a LOT of trouble climbing the rankings compared to players who lose much more often but play more games. It's especially bad since I'm high level and get crap ranking points for fighting all the high level top rankers.

It seems like if you don't run hundreds of games in the 50s-70s you have no chance for a high ranking, no matter how powerful you are at high level.

Honestly, if it weren't for the awesome fun I have at tournaments, I'd hate everything about how the "best" players are chosen.

1mb4k4
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Re: Ranking leaderboard manipulation on NA Server

Post by 1mb4k4 » Tue Apr 26, 2016 12:50 am

@Caerold
Yes, you can not beat someone who plays 100 games every day. He will always have more score points than you...
I can not imagine a way when you with only a few battle will be able to overtake a grinder :)
The ranking position requires persistence.

Motylek
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Re: Ranking leaderboard manipulation on NA Server

Post by Motylek » Tue Apr 26, 2016 8:22 pm

But that is exactly same problem, which I see in current ranking system. It is not display of player quality, is it is just display of player activity and disfavor. Like I mentioned above, it is pushing up heroes, who are losing a little less than average player on cost of players, who are losing much less than average player.

Like I mentioned in the last paragraph of my previous post (viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4096&start=10#p5882), there should be done something (even if it would be something very small), that would make favor at least alittle desirable. Because how it is currently made, disfavor is very positive thing and favor has only negative meaning, that is hurting hero.

Best regards
Motylek

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