The guild duel system is really mess up!!!

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janerule
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The guild duel system is really mess up!!!

Post by janerule » Sat Jan 10, 2015 3:07 am

Hi,

My guild " just a guild" in NA server lose yet another battle without one single duel lose against another 2 member guild. so first time we lose to guild "cla do travo" without any duel result cause they don't accept any duel( and dont decline either), using the same method they defense the territory successfully... and today, we lose another territory to 2 members guild "Elapa" with the following result: Ebichu 2:0 ,me and twist99 1:0 and they decline our second challenge, so this should at least be a 3 win out of total 5 guild duels, so why would we lose the guild battle? And if they decline the challenge dont mean auto lose, then how can we even beat them( i haven't mention mostly they just don't accept or decline challenge )?

It's really frustrating that a guild with 2 member( both under lv50 without any skills) can take our territory so easily without one single duel win...i wouldn't complain if we lose to a strong guild but lose to a beginner guild? what the heck??? and what's wrong with the guild duel system???

Regards,

1mb4k4
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Re: The guild duel system is really mess up!!!

Post by 1mb4k4 » Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:20 pm

I guess i should explain short and clear how it works. There are a lot of discussion regarding the conquering system, but i guess it still remains unclear.

So it works with a score. Each duel gives score to the team. The team with higher score wins, but each duel (match) is judged separately!
If in a duel a player gains 2 or more victories, the duel is valid and the players receives score as a winner.
If none of the player achieves at least 2 victories, the duel is considered invalid and the outcome is judged based on the following criteria:
- The number of challenge requests declined - if a player declines challenges he will loose the duel.
- If the above info is unavailable the time online checked.
- For both there is a specific amount of score, of course less than the clear victory.

Now as every conquer attack is consisted of multiple duels, the outcome is defined from all of them.
If your team get's one duel victory and declines all other challenge request, this does not guarantee a victory. Or one member of a team is committed to play and wins but the others do not come online or slack.
Every time i look into the logs i see one of the above...

Regards,

janerule
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Re: The guild duel system is really mess up!!!

Post by janerule » Tue Jan 13, 2015 3:25 am

Hi,

You state that if your opponent decline your challenge, they will auto lose that duel, but most the time after i sent the challenge, they neither accepted nor declined the challenge, so i strongly suspect that they just log in the game and let it run in the background.Then, how does the score base on now? online time?

It's that's the case then let us imagine a scenario: my opponent log in the game after the battle started and let it run in the background until the battle ended, so he wont decline any of my challenge,and according to ur statement above, the score will decided base on online time, since my opponent is online all 24 hours, so that would mean he will win the guild duel?? :(

The above scenario will be true if after i sent him the challenge and the 30 secs countdown is finish and this doesn't count as decline (only he decline the challenge manually count as decline technically??), thus result in that I have no way to get score except online time. So for guild win all he have to do is log in the game and forget it for 24 hours?? And then boom... tomorrow he will win the guild duel......

Regards.

janerule
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Re: The guild duel system is really mess up!!!

Post by janerule » Wed Jan 14, 2015 2:41 am

Yet, we lose again, to a beginner guild :evil: :evil: :evil: nonetheless, this time we have 4 guild duels, result are: twist99's opponent decline his challenge 8 times( yet, 8 times) , so according to the rules, he score a win, so for the guild win, they would have to win the rest of duels against me and ebichu and 78 rus, in every case they just ignore any challenge requests( meaning they dont accept or decline the challenges), and all 3 of us online several times daily( though not very long), so i guess they win the duel cause they online longer??
I mean, why don't the guild duel change its name to "time battle-online longer, reward bigger" :x :x :x ? Now twist99 is so mad he even quitted the guild to avoid those nonsense..

Regards.

Motylek
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Re: The guild duel system is really mess up!!!

Post by Motylek » Wed Jan 14, 2015 7:55 am

@Jane, I was gently advising you how to proceed in this delicate matter, but you wanted it your way. I would say, this is what you get for trying to solve problems by force. Twist leaving your guild is consequence both of his frustration, but also of your way of solving matters as a guild leader. Guild leader has much bigger responsibility than normal player. No offense.

@Andrey, if I am aware, exact mechanisms of guild war result were previously considered secret. Kind of security by obscurity. I am not sure if saying them fully now is a good step, because it is giving option for exploitation, but it is your choice. However no matter how hard you will try, there will be always somebody dissatisfied.

Anyway I am observing more and more how human society is becoming inclined to to cheat more and more, even on unimportant things, just to have feeling, "yes, I got them, I am so smart, they are all below my level, I do not care I got above them by cheating, I was wise to do it".

Whatever mechanism will Andrey implement for guild war result resolving, there will be always attempts how to get around it. I am fairly convinced, there is no 100% working mechanism, Andrey can only attempt to get close to ~95% working mechanism.

Best regards
Motylek

1mb4k4
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Re: The guild duel system is really mess up!!!

Post by 1mb4k4 » Sat Jan 17, 2015 1:36 pm

@janerule
When you sent a challenge request it is recorded and remains hanging. It is only satisfied when your opponent either accepts or declines your battle. Hanging challenges are also counted, you can not cheat by just leaving the game online, because your opponents will most likely challenge you.
Bombarding your opponent with challenges will not work also ...

@Motylek
Yes, correct. It seems i have no choice but to disclose some of the mechanics, still leaving the exact numbers secret.
You are right, unfortunately you can't make everybody happy all the time :(

1mb4k4
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Re: The guild duel system is really mess up!!!

Post by 1mb4k4 » Tue May 19, 2015 9:31 pm

I have received complains from some players that the guild war and conquer seems to be compromised...

So it seems there is there is a myth that makes some players think that by sending challenge requests to offline users somehow help the win a guild war.
Well this does not work. Such challenges are ignored.

There are two changes to the guild war:
1) The loot (gold) from the guild war is now 2% (instead of 1%).
2) If there are no matches played no loot is stolen.
Please note that only players who actually played matches in the guild war will receive gold!

I still wonder why aren't everybody just dueling in guild wars ...
Don't you need the gold for the development of your heroes? :)

Regards,

Skill Hunter
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Re: The guild duel system is really mess up!!!

Post by Skill Hunter » Tue May 19, 2015 9:52 pm

HI
people dont duel if they knew they cant win
why would they duel ?
losing a match probably mean losing the area and also losing gold !
when you made the match by choice obviously no one can't win will duel
i said before making challenge system in the guild match won't work
cause low lvl guild won't duel they just will attack and hopes a miracle and some times it happen
even in a powerful guild some weak or low lvl member won't fight cause they will lose
that why i still think freedom is over rated in this system
and because the lack of activities high lvl members won't be online all the time and without a time for a match like the tournament they will probably won't even find each other online to duel
so probably one or two match will be played out of 10 or even 15 that if you get lucky
sometime there are no match and the territory will conquered by the one with the most active members

Skill Hunter
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Re: The guild duel system is really mess up!!!

Post by Skill Hunter » Tue May 19, 2015 10:06 pm

um i promised my self i won't make any suggestion in this game anymore cause nothing is happening but i will make this last one
you can make the guild matchs like the tournament with the time line and the members who are not online will lose that match
and the guild with the most winning will take the territory
it's the only way i see to make the people duel each other that way you ensure they will duel
and there will be no excusing that some member didn't fight or something like challenging other when they offline
you have to be there on time and you have to fight otherwise your guild will pay the consequence
good luck and best wishes

1mb4k4
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Re: The guild duel system is really mess up!!!

Post by 1mb4k4 » Wed May 20, 2015 10:46 am

@Skill Hunter
Whether the matches are scheduled for a specific time or a free challenge it is all the same.
The players will skip the matches just the as they do now, they won't show up or refuse to fight.
This will result in receiving penalty losses just for not being online...

So i guess the answer is more guilds ... meaning a guild member limit.
Let's say 5 members.

Regards,

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