About Combos/cards Efects and improvements.

Discussions about the gameplay and critique regarding the current state of the game and it's features.

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Syndharos
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About Combos/cards Efects and improvements.

Post by Syndharos » Sat Mar 02, 2013 4:52 am

Hi again, in this topic I would like to share my view of some combos efects for each Hero and sugest a new lvl of it.

COMBO EFECTS

Royal Rampage: +1 play area
This combo is for Orcs, wich is a hero with low energy and high damaging cards, so it aint just senseless for the low energy factor, as if it is very over power for the kind of cards you can use with the orc.
That is an efect wich suits more the Elvish hero, since he has good energy pool and could use this extra slot to land some atack cards with his heal spells.
In fact I believe this efect should be in a buff card for the elf.

Kings Light: Defense +45; Bonus EP +35; Reduces opponent EP -80; Reduces opponent heal -7

This combo efect fits best the human style becouse of the EP reduction, wich seems to be a strong factor of human Hero.

HEROES AND CARD EFECTS

Some efects seems to appear more in some heroes cards than others, but in my opnion it doesnt fit the hero style:

Increase/decrease Hand Area

This kind of efect seems to appear more in the elf´s cards while I believe it should be a Human Rogue efect since it should aim to control the opponents moves and have more options to deal with diferents situations.

Increase Play Area

As I said at the top, it should be an elvish buff to make sense the great pool of energy.

Forbids opponents collector deck

That should be an Elvish card since the evish seems to be more conected with the faith/spiritual/magical seals than humans. With this I also believe that the Prayer card should also be for the elf hero.

Duration Efect

This efect should be in most of the human atacks also Battle Training and Amplify magic should be for human too.

Dispel

This one should be for the Elf Hero.

Mystify/Shackles

Should be Orcs only but with other name ofc.

Clearance/Tactical Retreat

Both should be Humans only.


Phew.. ok I believe it should bring some more balance to the game.
That is my opnion on the game as it is.
What is your opnion on my opnion? 0.o'
Does any of these makes sense to you too :?:

Gigaplex
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Re: About Combos/cards Efects and improvements.

Post by Gigaplex » Sat Mar 02, 2013 3:19 pm

I don't think you should be trying to dictate how people play the game.

Syndharos
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Re: About Combos/cards Efects and improvements.

Post by Syndharos » Sat Mar 02, 2013 5:18 pm

Hello there Gigaplex. Thank you for your comment. I am sorry if that is how it sounds, my intention is just to share my P.O.V.
I am nothing more than a player just like you, so I dont believe I have the power to dictate anything, but since the developers gave us this space to express our ideas I will use it, couse I want to have a better game for me, and if what is good for me is good for other players or not I believe they should use this space and say it. Just like you did. ^.^

Now what do you think of a new feature like +efects for when you make more than one combo in a row? or at least visual efects... and an achievement as suggested b4.

Regards...

Gigaplex
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Re: About Combos/cards Efects and improvements.

Post by Gigaplex » Sat Mar 02, 2013 5:30 pm

Hello,

Believe people using such a feature should receive less bonus points or experience. It changes the whole dynamics from being a thinking game to selecting the recommended combos. Implementing such a feature would hinder this game more than helping it. Yet, these are just my thoughts.

Essence Team
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Re: About Combos/cards Efects and improvements.

Post by Essence Team » Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:00 pm

Royal Rampage: +1 play area
You have a point, but this parameter is available for the elf keeper as well. It is not useless for the orc warrior. Yes, you will not be able to play 3 mythical cards in one turn (you will not have the EP for that), but you will be able to play cheaper cards and make more combos during the turns, the + play area is in affect. Plus, you can make stranger Orc Warrior build, boosting more EP and changing gears. This is just an option, that you can or cannot take advantage of, but other orc warriors can find it useful and use it on one way or another. Our goal is to make the players invent the best strategies :)

Kings Light: Defense +45; Bonus EP +35; Reduces opponent EP -80; Reduces opponent heal -7

The EP reduction is strong factor for both the Human Rogue and the Elf Keeper. Also with these heroic-based combos we want to break some stereotypes and make more tactical options for each of the characters. For example the Human Rogue has the combo:
King's Tactics: Defense 15; Reduce Heal 30; Reduce damage 24; Reduce Defence 16.
So this combo actually counters the Might/ Resistance /Regeneration parameters, and is additional tactical option, not worse than huge EP reduction in some cases.

Increase/decrease Hand Area / Forbids opponents collector deck
Currently, with the use of combos each of the characters can use each of these parameters. Forbidding the enemy's collector deck is more controlling the moves of the enemies than the -hand attribute and is more fitting the Human Rogue character. You say "That should be an Elvish card since the evish seems to be more conected with the faith/spiritual/magical seals than humans." - I think you should not mix the gameplay tactical logic and the gameplay visual / conceptual logic. Here the logic is: the Elves have more spiritual power to boost their hand (as they have more increase duration capabilities and increase buff slots capabilities). The Orcs use brute force and decrease all these area boosting effects (have more decrease hand, decrease buff, decrease duration capabilities) so they can negate all these effects and use pure damage to deal "fairly" with the opponent. The Human Rogues are in the middle of all this - they are the most balanced and have both the capabilities (increase and decrease areas) plus the fancy "forbid collector deck"

Increase Play Area
As I said - all the heroes should have this option. Yes, the elf keepers have advantage here, but this doesn't mean that one user, who wants badly to play 3 cards with his orc warrior should not have this option.

Duration Efect
Here I don't agree with you, because the Elf Keeper actually has the larger number of cards with duration >1. The increase duration attribute and the Amplify Magic as a card that increases the duration is designed precisely for him. But of course as I said - everybody should have different options, so the Human Rogue has Cripple, with Decrease duration 1 (a nice elite card that can be very useful in the combat versus elf keepers and their high duration cards), and Strategy Excellence, which have 1 increase and 1 decrease duration. There is no other card like this - and it can be very helpful. You boost a little your duration and mess up the duration of the opponent. Actually these cards are not for one or the other character, these cards are common for character types. Strategy Excellence is common for range (as the Amplify Magic is common for caster). So these cards will be usable from other future hero characters.

Dispel and Mystify/Shackles/Clearance
Dispel and this attribute actually (collect all cards) is far too powerful (especially versus heroic cards, that have huge duration) to be playable only for one character. Everybody should have it - and for that it is common for all. The same is the case with the shackles and Clearance -they are very powerful to be playable only from one character. Also, with the help of skills you can boost all your increase area effects, make your character completely different from the rest and actually unique, with unique tactics. I don' understand why you mention Mystify and Tactical Retreat.

So our main point is that - in some cases it is good to make big character differences - the point is to have different game experience, playing different characters. But there are some special card attributes, that are too powerful to be playable only from one of the characters. The result of such restrictions are very unpredictable. For the same reason there are some very powerful skills to be usable only from one of the characters - like increase number of similar cards in your collector deck.

Syndharos
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Re: About Combos/cards Efects and improvements.

Post by Syndharos » Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:39 pm

Once again thank you very much for the reply.

I see your point, but still I cant agree that those points keeps the game balanced. Becouse for me it just aint balanced.

I used logical arguments just to doenst seem it would have no reason for the sugestions.

But the whole point is that this is a way, I belive, could balance the classes a bit,.
I belive that this is a young game, and will be very promissing in the near future, so I am trowing my ideas and time on it(hope to soon trow some coisn too), becouse I believe the reasons you guys made the game this way were solid, but if by sharing my points of view, and what I like and deslike, I could help improve and motivate other players to do the same (and as long as it dont bother) I will be happy.
As I said b4, I dont know the goal of you guys with the game, if it just a project to get attention form other game companies that may hire you, or make it a huge and popular game.
I just hope I can help anyway.

Once again I state here that for now I will slow down my play time, but keep tracking the updates, and improvements.

Best regards...

Julio Pereira Leal. (cheers from Brazil)

PS: a +1 play area for orc aint useless, is way too dangerous!

Essence Team
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Re: About Combos/cards Efects and improvements.

Post by Essence Team » Mon Mar 04, 2013 4:35 pm

We are trying to make a good game and impress the players, not some big game company :)

Tell me which of my points you meet as leading to unbalance and which ones you agree with? My wish is to discuss them in more detail here.

Syndharos
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Re: About Combos/cards Efects and improvements.

Post by Syndharos » Mon Mar 04, 2013 5:50 pm

The point I belive to lead to the unbalance is that both Orc Warrior and Elf Keeper seems to have more focus, and the Human Rogue in his balanced way isnt good at any, I mean having no strong and weak point, but 2 weakness. While the Elf having control over the enemy EP becomes too good.
I agree with the point that giving option of strategy, insted to force it to a single role is very positive, but as it is now Orc have a splash of heal/regeneration and Elf have a good splash of EP control. And the Human Rogue dont get good at any... seems he lacks focus on something. The elf have cards with good efects and good duration more than humans so Strategy Excellence is a very good card for Human if he had more cards to make potencialize it.

You mentioned Kings tatics, its a example of how Human does lots of things but in a small dose, this is a end game combo with Heroic cards involved, that do many things.
Now compare it with Brutal Hurricane, Tribal drums(that doesnt even use Heroic card), or Rampage of the strongest. Or even my most loved mash up of rockie combos, Foul Rampage+Brutal Marauding. Seems that King´s Tatics isnt usefull against those.
Talking about tactical logic and not visual logic, this combo NEED a good dmg card with at least duration 2(any other than Death Trap?) , or you would need to count too much with the luck to pull another good combo in your atack turn, assuming Kings Tatics is a combo to be pulled in your defense turn. WIthou it, all this combo does is buy time/bother your oppnent, and doesn show/express any tactical focus for the human like the other combos I mentioned.
I keep taking about the human being the best at reducing enemie EP bcouse of his especial card, wich is weak compared to other cards, and it wouldnt be too Overpower if it had duration 3 like the others or if it could reduce 50%, that is the reason I focus that human should be the best at cripling EP.

Look at Bear Spirit: Elite; 6.dmg, -30EP, dur2: cost=100.EP(wich in total its 12dmg, -60EP, Duration just makes easy to have 2 of these on table)
Compare it with Backstab: Elite; 10dmg, -10EP; cost=67.EP
Or Compare it with an EPIC card: Trap: -12dmg, -20EP; cost 84EP
Now take the card Ambush, and change the +16EP into -16EP, and give it a combo with Backstab and you will be geting closer to my view of the Rogue style.
Look at the cost and how much it mean for each hero.

I belive that maybe the fact of not allow some Hero to use one or another efect a bad point, but it wouldnt be if, for that, he would have a good focus in something the others wont.
I mean, no one miss cards that reduce enemie EP for Orcs becouse he is good at what he is meant to do.
Once again what I see is:

Orcs; High: Damage-High Life points
Low: Healing/Regeneration
Poor: EP- EP control, defense and Duration cards.

Elf: High: EP- Healing/Regeneration(wich seems similar to resistence but better)
Good: EP control and duration cards
Low: Damage and Defense
Poor: Life points

Human: High:
Good:
Low:
Poor:

Plz fill those for me with whatever you guys wanted when created the Hero.

Essence Team
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Re: About Combos/cards Efects and improvements.

Post by Essence Team » Fri Mar 08, 2013 4:54 pm

Yes, I understand your ideas. I will check the current situation with the cards and combos and I'll share you our decision.

Syndharos
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Re: About Combos/cards Efects and improvements.

Post by Syndharos » Sat Mar 09, 2013 1:37 am

Hope you guys dont take the path that weaken the Orc and Elf. They are fine as they are. ;)

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