About attack and defence

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eddi282
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About attack and defence

Post by eddi282 » Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:04 pm

Hello guys, this is my first topic. I wanna point the attntion on a problem regarding elves in particolar, but is a general problem. I notice that over 50 level, most of people build decks with few cards that only attack, but no defence. Last example I defead with elf in 2nd turn with 3 combos: 2 honor veticum and a strongest... something (I think sword). So I have 200 hit points and can't play because 2nd turn I defead. Where is the game? How can people play if an opponent can win a match in olny 2 turns? What I try to say is that you make a lot of importance in attack combos, but about defence? elves for nature are less strong, so if i attack but have 200 hitpoints and opponent attack and have 300 hitpoints, people who have strongest attack win, but there is no play, there is no fight, only 3 turns to win with all the best card in hand. For this reason I notice that many people use a 15-20 cards deck maximum, so is too esay have the right cards In first turn and win (my deck that make me arrive 10 in ranking with many ranking games (eddi282 with edaisun) was of 56 cards, but I have to reduce at 31 to play with others of my level, but nothing, where is the pleasure of making deck and collect cards if I don't use them?) . I make another example, one time (for luck) I have in hand 3 brutal huricanes plus an hunicorn and shoot them all in first 3 turns, but no win, only defead, so elves can't defend but thei can't attack too. My best attack can't win, while attacks for human and orcs can win too easily in 3 turn. So, what's about upgrade defence? with my little defence i can parry 30 at least while my opponent make 100 damages, where is the match? Is only defead. So if an attack produce 50 or 70, people and in particular elves need a defence of 50-70. I know that there is a combo that can parry 45, more or less, but this is the unique while human and orsc have 50 damages minimun per turn, so in 3 turns (attack and defence) can make 300 damages more or less plus 120 (20x6) for the might bonus. So, how can an elf parry in 3 turns an attack of 420 more or less? If hitpoints for elves can't be 300 or more, Is impossible for elves to parry, or only a great fortune can help. For example in a match I use 3 dispell, I put off all great cards, I make finished the opposite deck, but people can make me 70 damages without any combo. What? how can I pare 70 damages If I just dispell all my defence? There is a problem in this kind of play, I repeat, because in all matches over 50 level people only attack and don't defend, and all matches are only who make more damages in less time, but no play, no adventure, no strategy, only best cards and damages. I put another example, I play different tournaments in MTG (magic the gathering) that is one of most famous collectable cards game, and for example there is a minimum cards deck because in early fase of play's costruction they notice that a deck with 40 cards can win all times in 3 turns, none can defend the strongest attack. So, at the beginning they put a limit of 40, but there was so uesless and up it at 60 cards. Now people that play magic tournaments can have no less than 60 cards and another important thing is that if player finish deck and can't draw is defead in automatic by rules. So I propose this two things, for make play more amuse and not to win or lost in 3 turns, make more combos with defence too (urgent for elves) and put a munimum number of cards deck (in campaign decks are very fat, while in rank I meet only 20 card max decks) Sorry for long words, I hope people can adjust this thing and for comprend this problem I suggest people to play with elves and undestand what I mean. I think that with my human character of 27 level I can win on my elf of 54 level, using only honor guidance and holy vengeance. Is it right? I suggest you to try.

my deck:

3 guardian light (in combo it's the strongest defense that make 45 defence, but a really easy combo like holy vengeance mahe 50 damages, so...)
3 thougness (can I arrive at +45 hitpoints but nothing)
3 dispell (but nothing)
3 unicorns (can attack but don't parry, while supreme justice make the same damges but can parry 17)
1 purify rain (a mithical card that cost 150 to play - 12 in attack and 11 regenerate (for 3 times, ok, but is mithical!), while prayer for humans is epic, cost 55 and make 14 damages + regenerate 14)
3 shield dome (can parry 16x2 but don't have any combos to upgade difence, so if first attack is 70 I can parry max 32 with 2 shields dome that cost 240!, but I don't have 240 because I use all points to have 200 hitpoints)
1 amplify magic (useless because I use everytime 3 dispells)
3 soul ilness
3 spiritualism
3 hurricane (in combo to make brutal hurricane)
3 cleasing (in combo to make a little defence)
and the 3 heroic cards that for elves don't have usesfull combos, only combo with soul lifting and sunset, but if opponent attack I don't have the time of use them because I defead before using the power of combo, so this three great cards are useless in elves and can't combo, only with cleasing or guardian light but i reperat, maximum I can have is 45 on defens and nothing important more, i defeaded before play something of relevant)

In the end I wanna make compliments at staff and people who make possible this game because is very goodmade and playable, many cards and funcions, but need more balance. In this moment I prefear play with my human knight on 27 level than my elf on 54 because the matches are more playable, there is no defead in 3 turns... if I don't play with elves that in 30 level defead in 3rd turn with humans like me.

Thank for attention, I wait suggest for my deck or my words.

Regards,

Eddi

Syndharos
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Re: About attack and defence

Post by Syndharos » Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:40 pm

I totaly agree with the minimum cards number increment.
Problem is that doing so would have to reset the tournament ranks, since most ppl are ranked where they are by playng with small decks.
I myself been doing it since start, even in the campaings, you choose 2 or 3 good combos and spam them reapatedly over the fight.
Also about the defense that you said I noticed it too in pvp, becouse those new mithycal buff cards made it a bit useless to invest in resist or regeneration, since if the oponent have 3 of those mythical buffs in tabel your regeneration/resistance comes down to almost zero, if not zero at all!
So having invest in HP is more profitable than defence or regeneration.

The possibility to play with very short decks also make useless the skill wich raises the number of cards in your deck.
I mean, who would like to fill a 80 deck with "uselles" cards while you can beat almost anything with 15 cards?(that is my rogue end game deck)

For pvp there is also another card wich is very Over Powered, and I mentioned it before, that it should be a card not for every hero wich is Honor Guidance.
For pvp I use 3 of these in my decks, and it totaly finish the opponent, couse noone can play without theyr decks, and most ppl fear to use dispel since it breaks theyr combos too, then if you can extend its duration and play one after another you become unbeateble.

So for you deck I would put 3 of Honor Guidance, and those Bear Spirit Combos, since your problem seems to be with Knights and Orcs, would be easy to control theyr atacks by reducing theyr EP. If you have the Royal Blood card I suggest you using Wisdom with it, so you get same efecct as Wisdom Potion, bosting your EP and reducing the opponent EP along with the Bear spirit. THAT is your best defence.

I realy hope they implement a minimum number of cards, and with that they sould restart the ranking, wich may displease some ppl, but will make many more ppl play it again, since right now the PVP is basicly a race to see who gets Honor Guidance first or thne greater number of damaging combos in first hand.

Gigaplex
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Re: About attack and defence

Post by Gigaplex » Sun Mar 24, 2013 2:14 pm

:roll: LOL,

Now you're trying to dictate everyone else's game play with a minimum set of cards. This game is about choices and if you want to use 80 cards in an attempt to out last the other classes. Good luck with that. Those of us who've taken the time to learn the game do not need or use 60 cards. So, go ahead and ask them to raise the card limit. Instead of 3 mythical s of the same type in my deck. I'll have six, eight or ten then of the same type. Then what's going to be your next issue? Learn your cards and deck then this issue would be over with. :idea:

Inanen
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Re: About attack and defence

Post by Inanen » Sun Mar 24, 2013 2:37 pm

I whole heartedly agree with the both of you!

My level 53 Knight can defeat someone in 2 - 3 turns max. I use a combination of Holy Viaticum & The King of the Humans with Melee training for continuation of. he combo. That puts 137 damage on the table and I can repeat it 3x.

Last night I played against Beechum who has a level 54 Elf Keeper, and he had a 40 card deck that knocked my Knight off its high horse: so yes a large side deck has the chance/capability of defeating the "churn & burn" decks.

I'm going to agree and say that there should be a mandatory deck size for ranking games. Something along the lines of:

=IF(lvl>=20,29-4, (lvl-0))

What the above formula says is this; if the players level is 20+ than the player is required to have 25 cards in his/her side deck, otherwise the not limited in their deck size. The Second portion of this statement grows with the player so they always have at least 25 cards in their side deck. This is only a rude example for the purposes of displaying an option. Thoughts?

Inanen
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Re: About attack and defence

Post by Inanen » Sun Mar 24, 2013 2:46 pm

No one is dictating how you play the game, Gigaplex, but we're trying to improve over all enjoyment. Because, to be able to destroy someone in 2-3 turns is all fine and dandy, but where is your strategy? Where is the game play at there?

If you are not interested in improving the game and actually enjoy the status quo than I apologize, because some of us would really like the game to grow and develop into a true strategy based card game.

Gigaplex
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Re: About attack and defence

Post by Gigaplex » Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:38 pm

This game is not Diablo, Magic the Gathering or World of Warcrat. This game is called Eldhelm for a reason. If you wish to play those games then, "Who's stopping you." First you Elf's were complaining about Orcs attacking power and now you're complaining about deck size. How about you spend some time learning your decks instead of trying to have the developers cribble the game. Can't speak for the human class because I don't use them. But Orc's are meant to be quick and deadly. If you can't handle this fact. Then go try playing the computer of Easy Mode. Every Hero has something unique at point. They gave you guys about 10 or 20 different cripple abilities with the last update. Do I complain when people attempt to use Kings Light from the beginning to end of a match. No, I call Dispel and keep moving. Also, quit trying to disguise a buff which favors your Hero as, "An Improvement To The Game!" No one buys that crap. We all know the odds go up for Elfs the longer matches are based on their Regeneration ability. If you can't figure out a way on your own to extend the match. Then that's on you. Lastly, if you're really trying to improve the game as you say. How about submitting some bugs when they are discovered? Everyone knew there was a Major Bug out there. Yet, "None of you choose to report it?" So, start with the simple things first prior to dictating game play.

Inanen
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Re: About attack and defence

Post by Inanen » Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:53 pm

Gigaplex, you're right this game is Eldhelm and not one of a multitude of others. I'm not complaining about one race or another, or even that people are essentially pulling out the nukes at round one.

I'm only looking to improve overall game play with a suggestion. I do review my cards and look to build a winning strategy, right now that strategy is nothing but do the most damage as quick as possible. I understand that you're a proponent of leaving well enough alone, but there are great opportunities to improve overall satisfaction.

Perhaps some suggestions are out landish, but hence they are only suggestions. The developers will always take into account the game balance and where their vision of the game is going, so relax and allow others to post said suggestions without bashing them. If you don't agree with someone or something, that's fine, but please try and come off a little less hostile in your posts.

ItzElixsis
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Re: About attack and defence

Post by ItzElixsis » Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:56 pm

Think about this Gigaplex. If we all figure out what the best deck is.. the best set up.. the best combos for the quickest win who would want to play with any other deck?
oh yes for fun i will play my elf but when i want to win that tornament or get to the top of the ranking so i can boast i will use my win turn 3 deck.

what we need to do is not say you can have more than 3 of any same card but to change it so you can have less than so many cards in your deck depending on your level.
this way your takeing away the chances of getting that turn 3 win on turn 3. you don't have to change the cards or change the combo. We need more luck involved in the drawing of our cards.

All games draws ideas from other games out there so yes this isn't Diablo or Magic but we can learn from what those games have done to improve or help improve this game by sugesting ideas for the devolopers instead of Flameing other players!

Gigaplex
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Re: About attack and defence

Post by Gigaplex » Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:02 pm

Hello,

I'm a proponent of letting someone acquire all the cards through game play, game of luck and etc. Then, letting them decided if they want to use 5 or 50 cards. Quit trying to extend the game. Next thing you guys are going to suggest is, "Only defensive cards on defensive turns!" It's you the player who decides how each match is going to turn out. That's what makes this game different from all the rest. Also, show me a deck with only offensive cards and i'll show you someone who's losing 60% of the time!

One last thing on this:

People are not losing because someone else has only 20 or 30 cards in their deck. They're losing because they refuse to use dispel. Reason being, "They compiled a deck with no outs." Meaning, if I blow away their heroic cards, all other options are now off the table. Do not blame the person willing to sacrifice their heroics or mythical because they had a backup combo already in place. Just yesterday I forget my Heroic Elf card in a match. Went 15 turns with no cards left in the collectors deck and still won. Why, because I don't depend on just my Mythicals and Heroics.
Last edited by Gigaplex on Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ItzElixsis
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Re: About attack and defence

Post by ItzElixsis » Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:10 pm

I apologize Gigaplex i only would like to see the game be fun at all stages and for a long time after you have gotten mostly all the cards. I don't want to end up in a match where i know i will lose on turn 3 that isn't fun or fair.


Hello guys, this is my first topic. I wanna point the attntion on a problem regarding elves in particolar, but is a general problem. I notice that over 50 level, most of people build decks with few cards that only attack, but no defence. Last example I defead with elf in 2nd turn with 3 combos: 2 honor veticum and a strongest... something (I think sword). So I have 200 hit points and can't play because 2nd turn I defead. Where is the game? How can people play if an opponent can win a match in olny 2 turns? What I try to say is that you make a lot of importance in attack combos, but about defence? elves for nature are less strong, so if i attack but have 200 hitpoints and opponent attack and have 300 hitpoints, people who have strongest attack win, but there is no play, there is no fight, only 3 turns to win with all the best card in hand. For this reason I notice that many people use a 15-20 cards deck maximum, so is too esay have the right cards In first turn and win (my deck that make me arrive 10 in ranking with many ranking games (eddi282 with edaisun) was of 56 cards, but I have to reduce at 31 to play with others of my level, but nothing, where is the pleasure of making deck and collect cards if I don't use them?) . I make another example, one time (for luck) I have in hand 3 brutal huricanes plus an hunicorn and shoot them all in first 3 turns, but no win, only defead, so elves can't defend but thei can't attack too. My best attack can't win, while attacks for human and orcs can win too easily in 3 turn. So, what's about upgrade defence? with my little defence i can parry 30 at least while my opponent make 100 damages, where is the match? Is only defead. So if an attack produce 50 or 70, people and in particular elves need a defence of 50-70. I know that there is a combo that can parry 45, more or less, but this is the unique while human and orsc have 50 damages minimun per turn, so in 3 turns (attack and defence) can make 300 damages more or less plus 120 (20x6) for the might bonus. So, how can an elf parry in 3 turns an attack of 420 more or less? If hitpoints for elves can't be 300 or more, Is impossible for elves to parry, or only a great fortune can help. For example in a match I use 3 dispell, I put off all great cards, I make finished the opposite deck, but people can make me 70 damages without any combo. What? how can I pare 70 damages If I just dispell all my defence? There is a problem in this kind of play, I repeat, because in all matches over 50 level people only attack and don't defend, and all matches are only who make more damages in less time, but no play, no adventure, no strategy, only best cards and damages. I put another example, I play different tournaments in MTG (magic the gathering) that is one of most famous collectable cards game, and for example there is a minimum cards deck because in early fase of play's costruction they notice that a deck with 40 cards can win all times in 3 turns, none can defend the strongest attack. So, at the beginning they put a limit of 40, but there was so uesless and up it at 60 cards. Now people that play magic tournaments can have no less than 60 cards and another important thing is that if player finish deck and can't draw is defead in automatic by rules. So I propose this two things, for make play more amuse and not to win or lost in 3 turns, make more combos with defence too (urgent for elves) and put a munimum number of cards deck (in campaign decks are very fat, while in rank I meet only 20 card max decks) Sorry for long words, I hope people can adjust this thing and for comprend this problem I suggest people to play with elves and undestand what I mean. I think that with my human character of 27 level I can win on my elf of 54 level, using only honor guidance and holy vengeance. Is it right? I suggest you to try.
I would like to see some kind of video on how you lose so fast maybe we can help by sugesting new cards? or ways to play? or maybe against this one type of build your deck just won't win. remember that each Hero is good against another Hero and bad against another. Im sorry i was haveing a little hard time following your turn by turn explination too beacuse im not familer with the cards fully.

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