About attack and defence

Discussions about the gameplay and critique regarding the current state of the game and it's features.

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ItzElixsis
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Re: About attack and defence

Post by ItzElixsis » Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:16 pm

Syndharos wrote:So for you deck I would put 3 of Honor Guidance, and those Bear Spirit Combos, since your problem seems to be with Knights and Orcs, would be easy to control theyr atacks by reducing theyr EP. If you have the Royal Blood card I suggest you using Wisdom with it, so you get same efecct as Wisdom Potion, bosting your EP and reducing the opponent EP along with the Bear spirit. THAT is your best defence.

I realy hope they implement a minimum number of cards, and with that they sould restart the ranking, wich may displease some ppl, but will make many more ppl play it again, since right now the PVP is basicly a race to see who gets Honor Guidance first or thne greater number of damaging combos in first hand.
Yup agree with this fully because if this is how you get around the short deck combo win we all might as well just play from the random deck and not have collector decks lol. I am jokeing. I would so Honor Guidance is your best bet though. Hopefully we will see more cards out there that kind of do what Honor Guidance does maybe just not so powerful or strictly for one Hero.

Inanen
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Re: About attack and defence

Post by Inanen » Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:24 pm

I agree with what you just said there Gigaplex 100%.

In all reality the game is balanced well enough; because the way you play at level 20 isn't going to be the same at level 40, or in your case 70. At your level a 3 hit wonder isn't going to work, and will require some strategem.

As for the original post, I also agree with ItsElixis, if we knew the cards, or even the deck build you were going against we could offer some insight to your issues.

Syndharos
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Re: About attack and defence

Post by Syndharos » Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:37 pm

Its funny to see someone says we shouldnt sugest how game should be and should look for bugs, looks like he is dictating what we should suggest or not.
Look you have your game experience, we have ours, here we are invited to discuss it and share our opninions.
Also the last word is from the makers of the game.
I, as a beta player, give my thoughts and info about what I experience, so they can ponder over another point of view, and consider how they agree or not with it, or what to do about it.
We do not dictate anything, but just face it, the number of ppl sharing a point of view, its more likely to be considered than a single rude argument.
And here seems that most ppl see that more ppl are adopting a single strategie becouse it gives you more odds of wining, and its killing part of the fun.
Its a fact that most ppl adopt short decks with best ofence/defence cards and key killer cards like Dispel and Honor Guidance.
And why does this kills the fun and the purpose of the game? Becouse it became a race/ luck game, and not a strategy game.
We are not tryng to make it like Magic or whatever, we are tryng to make it become more like the discription.

And if they decided to implement a minimum card number, that is not dictating how you should play, becouse, if this is dictating, then the fact that you can only have 10 cards in hand is dictating, the fact that if you dont have enought EP to pay the cost you cant play the card is dictating, te fact that you lose when your life reachs zero is dictating... etc.

Just relax man, noone wants to break you precious toy, stop cryng.
All that we want is that less person feel forced to adopt the same kind of toy that you did, or else everyone will get a quick deadlier Orc like you, and you will cry again that they are making copy of your deck.
I belive that what ppl want here is exactly what you are sayng:" let ppl choose how they wanna play!" but for that, you should give them valid options.

Imagine this: you put 5 ppl to fight, and you give to each of them 4 wepons so they can choose: Sword, Club,Chain and 4 Granades.
That is not realy give options, that is a kind of dictate wich they will choose.

Now you can change the Granades for a Spear, or change the others for MachineGun, Sniper Rifle, and Shotgun.

Now who can gues wich class is wich weapons in my comparsions?!

Gigaplex
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Re: About attack and defence

Post by Gigaplex » Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:20 am

Syndharos wrote:Its funny to see someone says we shouldnt sugest how game should be and should look for bugs, looks like he is dictating what we should suggest or not.
Look you have your game experience, we have ours, here we are invited to discuss it and share our opninions.
Also the last word is from the makers of the game.
I, as a beta player, give my thoughts and info about what I experience, so they can ponder over another point of view, and consider how they agree or not with it, or what to do about it.
We do not dictate anything, but just face it, the number of ppl sharing a point of view, its more likely to be considered than a single rude argument.
And here seems that most ppl see that more ppl are adopting a single strategie becouse it gives you more odds of wining, and its killing part of the fun.
Its a fact that most ppl adopt short decks with best ofence/defence cards and key killer cards like Dispel and Honor Guidance.
And why does this kills the fun and the purpose of the game? Becouse it became a race/ luck game, and not a strategy game.
We are not tryng to make it like Magic or whatever, we are tryng to make it become more like the discription.

And if they decided to implement a minimum card number, that is not dictating how you should play, becouse, if this is dictating, then the fact that you can only have 10 cards in hand is dictating, the fact that if you dont have enought EP to pay the cost you cant play the card is dictating, te fact that you lose when your life reachs zero is dictating... etc.

Just relax man, noone wants to break you precious toy, stop cryng.
All that we want is that less person feel forced to adopt the same kind of toy that you did, or else everyone will get a quick deadlier Orc like you, and you will cry again that they are making copy of your deck.
I belive that what ppl want here is exactly what you are sayng:" let ppl choose how they wanna play!" but for that, you should give them valid options.

Imagine this: you put 5 ppl to fight, and you give to each of them 4 wepons so they can choose: Sword, Club,Chain and 4 Granades.
That is not realy give options, that is a kind of dictate wich they will choose.

Now you can change the Granades for a Spear, or change the others for MachineGun, Sniper Rifle, and Shotgun.

Now who can gues wich class is wich weapons in my comparsions?!
Sorry,

Was trying to understand what you're attempting to say between all the grammar and spelling errors Syndharos. I'll make the same statement as before, "All Weak Heroes Need To Be Strengthen!" This does not require deck limits. Reason being, "Some of us have the ability to develop our own strategies." Others like yourself, just copy or whine when they can't cope with them.

Lastly, I didn't know this was a place where you could only discuss the topic if you agreed with the original poster? Game-play discussion usually mean both side can debate a topic. Yet, this type of logic must only apply if you're in America. lol

Syndharos
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Re: About attack and defence

Post by Syndharos » Mon Mar 25, 2013 3:01 am

Well english is not my natural language, still I try to comunicate beyond that, and talking about grammar, I also couldnt understand if you made a question or an affirmation:
Lastly, I didn't know this was a place where you could only discuss the topic if you agreed with the original poster?
Are you asking what you dont know?

And just to mention I am in America. :P

Did you know America is a continet?

Gigaplex
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Re: About attack and defence

Post by Gigaplex » Mon Mar 25, 2013 11:54 am

Last time I checked no one calls Brazil or any other place America. So you don't live in the United States and what you're asking is totally unrelated to the topic. If I want some oranges, then I know who to ask. You must not understand english if still asking the question. Case Closed

Syndharos
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Re: About attack and defence

Post by Syndharos » Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:49 pm

Then check again.
Its called Latin America, or South America, just like USA is also called North America, like Canada too.
You should know the name fo your country at least.
If you wanna some oranges just ask. Or I can invite you to a barbecue, just like Anderson Silva did to Chael Sonnen. ;) ;)
Now can you comment something about the gameplay or you would still rather "debate" geography?

drhoule
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Re: About attack and defence

Post by drhoule » Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:01 pm

I agree with both positions on this debate.

As Giga says, you should always carry dispel in your deck. If you battle an orc, don't allow Orc Ferocity. However, you might be dead anyways after casting your dispel as there's no way to immediately couteract a card being played.

On the other hand, 3 turn battles are boring. Like in so many other games, people go for efficiency, and I can't blame them for that, I do the same. But it takes away the originality, and the point of having so many different cards and combos.

Tough call for the devs.

Edit: I side with Synd on the geography point. Central, North and South Americas. Lots of Spannish down below, quite a bit of French up above! English is not my first language either!

Inanen
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Re: About attack and defence

Post by Inanen » Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:16 pm

drhoule wrote:I agree with both positions on this debate.

As Giga says, you should always carry dispel in your deck. If you battle an orc, don't allow Orc Ferocity. However, you might be dead anyways after casting your dispel as there's no way to immediately couteract a card being played.

On the other hand, 3 turn battles are boring. Like in so many other games, people go for efficiency, and I can't blame them for that, I do the same. But it takes away the originality, and the point of having so many different cards and combos.

Tough call for the devs.

Edit: I side with Synd on the geography point. Central, North and South Americas. Lots of Spannish down below, quite a bit of French up above! English is not my first language either!
Thank you drhoule, you've started precisely what I'd attempted to portray in my previous diatribes!

Although in reference to the original post, I've gone back and picked up my Elf Keeper and am doing well with her. I've learned quite a bit by playing my Knight. First and foremost I've been working with an "efficient deck" (to borrow the term from drhoule) and have been marginally successful. I'm still a little ways away from completing the initial campaign, but I don't have any doubts once I rebuild her with mythical cards and a defensive strategy that she'll be an easy target.

It'll probably be a day or so but I'll post my Elf Keeper deck once I work out what it's going to be.

eddi282
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Re: About attack and defence

Post by eddi282 » Mon Mar 25, 2013 3:59 pm

Soryy for late in answer. All what you say is usesfull, and we can learn more about. But my post is called "about attack and defense". So for me the most important point was "what's about the defense?" I answer at Gigaplex, that say right things when speak about races and classes and that every class have his own power. I play with an elf that win perhaps all matches until enter of heroic cards, and now a human knight at 30 that use 2 simple combos x 3 (diplomatic leadership + holy vengeance) + honor of guidance. You say well, but for example the elves for nature are less powerfull (so minus life), they parry or evade with spells and regenerate (in this moment there are many opponents cards that reduce regenerance 0, 3 viaticum are -15 -15 -15 x 5 turns, and i can regenerate max 10 in medium). The elves has to take time to grow and be able to have a great attack in end, but in 3 turns can defead very easily. Cards that "amplify magic" are useless i can't use them because of i was defeaded before grow or a dispell as you say (about dispell, i have 3 dispells in my deck, because is my only one chance to defend to honor guidance that i repeat is too strong. What you do with your best cards if you can't use them for 4 turns? I have in my knight 3 honor guidance and perhaps if someone don't kill me on first 3 turns is dead because can't play. The alternative are dispell, but all the game reset and cards that combos and repeats become useless (one try was to repeat defense so with a repeated defense I can survive, but nothing if I have to use 3 dispels, I can't use my best spells because of dispel. Alternative is new card for humans that reduce time or in general cards or combos that reduce time. But the problem is that if you don't have one dispell in hand at first turn, is finished. I play personally with Inanen with my elf and he play honor guidance in firs turn, I don't have one of my 3 dispell in hand and finish! Other game, I have a dispell in hand and use all my 3 dispells to arrive at defence myself preparing to attack, but defead. In this match i used all in possible for elves to parry someting, and my best hitpoints at 54 level are 200 plus I need 3 thougness having 45 hp more. i use all defense you can read on my first post, I put all my deck, and defy only because who attack stronger and have more hp win in this moment in this game. My first assertion was to make more defense, because if you attack 80 and i can defense 30, all times, i can't attack because I think to defend, and my defense is not appropriate. I repeat, elves are slow for nature, so they have just more defence. I post part of my first comment:

"one time (for luck) I have in hand 3 brutal huricanes plus an hunicorn and shoot them all in first 3 turns, but no win, only defead, so elves can't defend but thei can't attack too. My best attack can't win, while attacks for human and orcs can win too easily in 3 turn vs elves. So, what's about upgrade defence? with my little defence i can parry 30 at least while my opponent make 100 damages, where is the match? Is only defead. So if an attack produce 50 or 70, people and in particular elves need a defence of 50-70. I know that there is a combo that can parry 45, more or less, but this is the unique while human and orsc have 50 damages minimun per turn, so in 3 turns (attack and defence) can make 300 damages more or less plus 120 (20x6) for the might bonus. So, how can an elf parry in 3 turns an attack of 420 more or less? If hitpoints for elves can't be 300 or more, Is impossible for elves to parry, or only a great fortune can help. For example in a match I use 3 dispell, I put off all great cards, I make finished the opposite deck, but people can make me 70 damages without any combo. What? how can I pare 70 damages If I just dispell all my defence? There is a problem in this kind of play, I repeat, because people only attack and don't defend, and all matches are only who make more damages in less time, but no play, no adventure, no strategy, only best cards and damages."

I repeat if the point is the nature of charachers, elves are simply less equilibrate that others, because now they can't use his primary bonus (resistance) if some knight equip 3 mithical cards, can't patty because attack and defence are not equilibrated, and I try in my first person, can't win with their best combo in attack. If the power of elves is strategy or grow, they can't grow because they have to dispell all before die, and this is the reality. I suggest you to try, try to play an elf character vs an human knight. Everytime only defead. I study very much my deck but nothing for elves. If there is some other elf... best rookie combos with heroic cards are with soul lifting and sunset, and produce me a bug because I gain 10 slots in equip but I can't see the cards down. What can I do with 10 equip slots in first turn if my opponent make me 80 damages? I report another bug, in combos there is no possibility to choose the combo, but many times for elves take the worst combo. So for example the best combo i think is to block the opponent's deck and sunset + tactics block and more, but this gone in second when there are combo how for example i take more equip. But I take equip just whit another combo that can be used to make something else (for example parry). So the end is that I can't parry because goes in combo with cards and this is useless because I just gain. Less equip gain and more defence, for example. Or if i use soul lifting, that enter in combo, i prefear a sacfifical soul lifting (about 30 damages + other else) than a equip grow. So what's about balance combo for elves or introducing choise of combos? In my elf deck, with 3 amplify magic i arrived to play 15 cards i think, in my 20 mac i count 11 and others goes off. An half was defense but can't be able to defend, I use all my defense! The other was combos useless. This is was I wanna to say, and in this way all we can grow if someone comprend the others problems, and all we try to make the same work. For example I can propose an equilibration to attack and defence, so it mean that if you attack 130 x 3 times an elf or each other can parry 90-130 x 3, as proportion. I think it's a correct request... don't you think? "less hp = defead", in this moment is this the formula, because parry is not equilibrated with attack. You can make me 300 damages in a turn, but I wanna be able to parry 300 damages, or no play. Another thing I can propose is how equilibrate three classes. we can say attack, defence and spells, and all classes have a number to 1 of 3 for this three words. So elves can have 3 in spells, 2 in defence and 1 in attack (but spells can be strongers), an orc can have 3 in attack, 1 defence, 2 spells, so also orcs spells are strong. Human can have 2 attack, 2 difence, 2 spells, so is the class meedle. I don't know, is a porpouse.

About cards limit, I simply report a historic event, and people that now make decks up to 15 years, reach this urgent upgrade the first 2 years, first 40 than 60 cards, or a deck can win everytime in 3 turns. And If you notice is what is made to happen now so there is no bad idea, you can have 3 of all cards you want, but if there are possibility of combo or sure combos all times, the strongest combo simply win, the end.

Last things, sorry and I report a bug. Trying to have more hp than 200 i use many trainings and arrive to 62 level from 54. So I think I'll use it for long because now use human, but is i think so easily grow if you have money. I use just because having many money but all mithical cards and no more to buy, so use them.

I hope all people can be happy, and if someone choose elf can play in competition with others.

I hope clarification, thanks to staff for the great work, I know all this i really complex and I really think this game can have possibility to become a new brand game.

Eddi282

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