Recent Changes.

Discussions about the gameplay and critique regarding the current state of the game and it's features.

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Syndharos
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Recent Changes.

Post by Syndharos » Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:28 pm

OK. Some of the key cards for each race were changed and there is something I dont see a fair point here:
Sunset now reduce duration, why? What is the point?
I mean, its a card WITH duration that reduces duration, now think of it while using Amplify Magic.
If changes was about duration and rarity, ok I realy agree that humans were playng basicly with Honor Guidance, Reduce its duration to half was too drastic, but ok we deal with it.
Now add a efect to Sunset was not point compared to the changes made in the other cards.

In matters of duration control each class had his ways to deal with it, Ranged have Strategy Excelence (-1+1) AND Criple(-1), Melee have Resistance(-2) AND Battle Training(+1), those are all class cards, now the Elf Keeper have a racial card and a class card to control duration, and the best of all, since Amplify gives +2 and Sunset now gives a total of -2 that can be extended!! Who needs dispel in this case right??

Honestly, Human Rogue was my favorite Hero, now I give up, will wait for the Elf Ranged, since it will be able to use Sunset+ Strategy Excelence, without mention all other combinations of cards it will have, like Bear spirit + Cunning Tatics, an all those -dmg cards, like Take Cover, Shock.
I wonder what his special card would do. Hope you guys work on it fast!

Syndharos
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Re: Recent Changes.

Post by Syndharos » Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:06 pm

Just forgot to mention: The combos you guys made with the "new epic" cards, are just unfair too, the cards added to make combos for the Orc and for the Elf are good cards with nice possibilities of combos, even with Heroic ones, while the Human was added Inner Strenght, wich is a poor card compared to the others in matter of combo and possibilities.

Why those changes were made? I dont understand, I see reason on changeing Honor Guidance, but cant see why the other cards had to be changed too. I realy hope that it`s just a step on further changes. In this case of the combos the the efects are also unfair with the human, since both cards have an maxed efect of theyr efects when combined with the heroic card of the race, -3 duration for x turns, and Orcs will reduce your hand in 6!!
Humans get a -2,+2 hand area ¬¬'
Everyone knows +hand area has no efect for high lvls, since you cant have more than 10 cards in hand. So Sunset was pretty pointless for higher lvls, then you guys add a reduce duration efect, why? why not reduce damage? whatever... duration was just way too much for the race.
Oh please!! Do you guys have something against humans??
Or is it something like: "Now you have to pay for what the other races suffered with Honor Guidance!"

Please help me understand those changes.

Essence Team
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Re: Recent Changes.

Post by Essence Team » Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:34 am

There was a real issue with Honor Guidance - I'm sure you will agree with that. This issue was somehow ok for the Human Rogue, but too powerful for the Human Knight.

So, the last changes are not final and maybe will need some adjustment. I had doubts that the Elf Keeper got too powerful with this Reduce Duration for 3 turns and maybe we'll reduce Sunset to duration = 2. But this is a nice and unique card, that can counter both the Orcs' Roar and the Humans' Honor Guidance. And yes the Increase hand is meaningless at high levels (actually usable only against Roar). So Sunset needed some power boost. Regarding Honor Guidance, I have doubts about its correct duration (2 or 3) so this also may be re-changed to 3.

I also agree that the Human Rogue still needs some power boosting and we're working on that.

But I disagree about your statement about the new combo changes. The point in that combo changes is to make these combos harder to make, and to make them with max duration 2 (actually the 3rd card is mainly for the duration of the combo). The net attributes are absolutely equal for the three races (I'm speaking about the additional bonus damage / damage, coming from the heroic cards + the 3d added card). The fancy attributes (like forbid collector deck, etc.) are absolutely equal between the combos, compose of multiracial elements (for example the combo of the Orcs that is with the Human heroic card gives the same net attributes of the combo of the Humans that is with the Orc heroic card). So the differences are only in the uniracial combos (like combo of the Orcs that is with the Orc heroic card). Maybe a little tune is needed, because it is true that the Elf's -2 duration is too dangerous.

Syndharos
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Re: Recent Changes.

Post by Syndharos » Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:08 pm

Yes, I agree that Honor Guidance was an issue.

And the fact that The Sunset Combo can counter both Orc Roar and Humans Honor Guidance makes it unbalanced, remember you guys talking about a "Rock Papper Scissor" mechanic?
Even Suset with duration 2 its still a lot, considering that casters have Amplify Magic, and the game dont have a maximum duration limit, I mean, if you play Sunset same turn with Amplify Magic it goes to 4 turns duration, breaking its initial duration 2. Still I am glad to have duration control in a racial card, meaning mostly every elf will be good at it.(cant wait for the ranged elf)

Honor Guidance duration seems something hard to find a balance, in my opnion would be nice 2 turns if added another efect, problem is to find a fair efect.
In fact he Fobid Deck efect is something very powerfull to any character when it comes to pvp or high lvl NPCs, so maybe this efect should be achieved only through combos, this way you could make Rogues have a higher duration in this efect than Knights, and with the changes you made now, even the Orc can have this efect for a higher duration than Humans.
I mean, if this efect is combo based you could have more control of how easy each race and class could have acces to it, and how good/powerfull it would be for each one.

I understand the intention to make the combos harder to make, my problem is the cards pickd to compose these combos, and theyr efects.
The cards picked to compose the Orc and Elf combo are cards that were mostly already used in good end game combos and have good efect without the new combo, and the Inner Strengh is not a good card alone, and dont compose any other good combo, wich means Humans that plan to make the new combo will be forced to add a card to the deck that they usualy wont.

The efect of those combos, is with the duration of the efects and the fancy efects.
The Orc race when comined with the Human card gives the Forbid Deck Efect for more duration, than you can get with the Human.
And in the UniRacial combo efects for the orcs and elf you made have efects that can be boosted, and worth it! -6 hand area is very good, and -2 duration is awesome.
But what does the Human get with his uniracial combo???????? What is bossted in his fancy efect????? NOTHING! a big ZERO! what you get is a -2 in the oponent hand becouse even the +2 for you hand is useless most of the time.

I remember I said to you guys in a email that the rogue needed a strong point, and that it could be EP control to follow his special card efect, or duration control since Strategy Excelence was the best duration control card, and all these 2 points I mentioned were improved in the elf keeper since then!!


Still, I am glad to know that those changes are not final.

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Re: Recent Changes.

Post by Essence Team » Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:08 am

Yes, I agree that the Human uniracial combo need some boosting, maybe reduce Sunset from 3 to 2 duration.

But "The Orc race when comined with the Human card gives the Forbid Deck Efect for more duration, than you can get with the Human." - is not true. The 3 combos of the Orc with Roar are composed from Battle Lust, which has duration = 2, I even changed the attributes and the effects of the Elf's card Superiority (from 3 to 2) i order to make each of these combos with the same duration of 2 turns.

And I don't understand why you hate Inner Strength :D

Orc's card Battle Lust participates in:
- the three Intermediate combos with Roar: Roar of the Strongest, Roar of the King and Roar of the Queen
- the Rookie combo common for all Orcs: Battle Lust of the Strongest
- the Master combo for Orc Warrior: Orcish War

Elf's card Superiority participates in:
- the three Intermediate combos with Sunset: Holy Sunset, Tribal Sunset and Elven Sunset
- the Rookie combo common for all Elves: Queen's Superiority
- the Intermediate combo for Elf Keeper: Wolf of Terror
- the Skilled combo for Elf Keeper: Forest Glamour

Human's card Inner Strength participates in:
- the three Intermediate combos with Inner Strength: Guidance of the Strongest, King's Honor and Guidance of the Queen
- the Rookie combo common for all Humans: King's Strength
- the Master combo for Human Rogue: Shadow Dominance
- in no combo, specifically for Human Knight. And everybody is complaining about him so this is just a small inconvenience for the Human Knight players :)

maybe the combo King's Strength needs some change, being with too scattered attributes (because of its composing card Human Tactics combined with Inner Strength's bonus damage), but the rest are fine.

Syndharos
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Re: Recent Changes.

Post by Syndharos » Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:40 pm

Yeah I was wrong about the Orc combo duration, I was just considering the Roar card duration.

And, at least in my game, Sunset already have duration 2!

ALso I dont HATE Inner Strength, I just think its not convenient for end game players as Battle Lust and Superiority. Rogues hardly use Shadown Dominance, since its a 1 in a game combo.
My dudgeon is that if Humans want to make combos with Honor guidance they will have to add a card just for it.

As you said Kig´s Strength is too scattered,so knights wont find it usefull, and Shadow Dominace compared to Forest Glamour or Orcish War is not worth becouse it has no duration like the others, and it uses Devotion, wich is another card that Human Rogue hardly would use. :cry:

My dudgeon is that if Humans want to make combos with Honor guidance they will have to add a card just for it.

But I understand that Inner Strength is the only rare card that Humans share. Just like Battle Lust and Superiority.

These changes are great if we already had Human Casters, Ranged Elfs, and some other Orc class(wtv).

Please!! Rush with the Ranged Elf!!

Essence Team
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Re: Recent Changes.

Post by Essence Team » Thu Apr 04, 2013 2:17 pm

Hmm that's true that the duration of Shadow Dominance make it both weaker and harder to realize. We'll consider some changes on that field too.

And as for the next characters - have some patience, because they need time and money to be made :)

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