Guilds and Conquer

Discussions about the gameplay and critique regarding the current state of the game and it's features.

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Skill Hunter
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In-game user name: Skill Hunter

Guilds and Conquer

Post by Skill Hunter » Wed Aug 20, 2014 8:13 pm

am sorry if i was bothering you but
the conquer system is really not good
my guild had 2 area have been attacked by 2 guilds
each one on a different area so its ok
but when the fighting starts ?? one guild they were never online so when its end we lost the area ??
the other guild was even worst
they were online but they just didnt want to duel ??
so we were challenging them but they just didnt accept ?? said they wasnt in the mood ??
So the challenge system is really dont work in the conquer
I was really wishing if it was like compaign
It will be much nicer if we can choose who we will fight
Makes the war more strategy it called conquer so i really dont get the system ??
Disqualafication will makes it more better i mean fighting against the same guy for 24 hours is realy booring
Thats if he wanted to fight putting pins like compaing will help the idea of compaign in conquer will be sooooo coooool
like if one of your member beats the other guild member the all guild go to the other step if any one loss than he is out like making three roads to the final fight every road have like 3 or 4 members you must beat that way if there are a stronge fighter you cant beat there are always another road who loss gets out both the attacking and the the defending guilds the final battle must be against the leader and if one of the attacking guild is not there well thats there problem couse the war will end in 24 hours but if the defending members wasnt online in 24 hours in all the roads they loss
canceling the challenge is even better i like the idea that both must be online but
Fighting against aguild with 2 members who dont want to duel and in the end they takes your area is sucks really
So once both were online the fight should starts right away
Am sorry if i took a lot of your time
Am just sharing my thoughts with you cause i would love for this game to be greater than what it is now
Thank you for your great work

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Re: Guilds and Conquer

Post by senjougahara » Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:12 pm

I agree with Skill Hunter. Very sad lost a area to a guild that never show up. But i have sure that will be fixed and u guys are doing a awesome work. Ty

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Re: Guilds and Conquer

Post by 1mb4k4 » Thu Aug 21, 2014 12:35 pm

Hi, i understand your frustration.
The latest release improves this!

Now, you need only 2 out of 3 matches or 2 out of 2 to win the match for the conquer mode. An there is a display of who wins - in the matches table. There are also some basic rules about the conquer in the guild home/chat page.

Yes there is a problem with the attacker guild slacking. As there are no strict times and frames involved there are ways to disrupt. The players should play in the time they like and in a way the like.
The good news is that currently you can get your territory back using the same cunning tactic. If guilds continue to do this i will be forced to ban them. So the next time your opponents refuse to play in the entire 24 hours period, remind them that doing so is a sure way to be banned from the conquer by an administrator.

I will monitor how conquer goes this weekend and i will act accordingly next week!
It seems that adding freedom is a great thing for some and a tool to disturb and annoy for others :(

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Re: Guilds and Conquer

Post by studbuns77 » Thu Aug 21, 2014 4:35 pm

I agree with skill hunter. and not showing up to fight is not a tactic. its cowardice and our guild would never do something lame like that. so a suggestion is that a guild can not fight unless they fight. and the defender shouldnt lose due to this problem. defenders should always win in event of tie not attacker. and that should help make them fight if they want to conquer. if not they lose battles and get disqualified. and we had more then a couple of wins no loses and no ties. our stats should be 3 wins and no ties and no losses. Thanks

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Re: Guilds and Conquer

Post by studbuns77 » Thu Aug 21, 2014 5:14 pm

hi again,
the attack wins if more wins makes sence not the tie part. that just means no attacker ever has to fight and they win. thats not fair. and skills right about making other team fight. if they are selected and dont show up for fight then that should count as loss not tie and them winning. its not fair to the defenders. youll have every guild just attacking and not showing up and they will win. if they dont fight any battles they shouldnt be awarded for that. i know its still young but guilds are already doing this and that is not a tactic. you dont win wars in real life by starting something and not fighting. you get conquered. so rethink conquest system pls.

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Re: Guilds and Conquer

Post by kaiser » Fri Aug 22, 2014 8:03 am

Hi Eldhelm team
Congratulations for this great game that you are developing, I'm glad to know that you are always open to new ideas an improvements based in ours experiences and reports. Following the topic I want to suggest some ideas for the conquer mode:

1. The first requisite to conquer an enemy territory should be that the guild must to have at least one territory under their control. To conquer a free territory all the guild members must to battle vs AI opponents and defeat them at least with a difference of the double. (With this is going to help to make guilds more actives and prevent to new guilds just took any territory they want without showing up)

2. To conquer an enemy territory the attacking guild must to have at least 1 Battle Point more than defenders, the algorithm could be something like
Conquer successful=C matches Win=W Matches done=M Battles points=B=(W/M)=1
Conquer fail=F team attacking=a team defending=d Bd>=1 Ba>=1

If Bd>=1 then
If not
If not Ba>1 then
If not

OMG I hope this could be understandably :shock: I still have my doubts, lol.
This is for prevent the guilds not showing up to defend the territory or attack. I remember I took just a little bit of programming in visual basic like 6 or 7 years ago, lol. But I'm still good with algebraic equations :)

3. After win a territory we should have 24 hrs to deliberate about our performance, experiences, discuss new tactics or made changes to our member guilds.

I will be glad to receive any comment or correction about my idea. Ty

Skill Hunter
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Re: Guilds and Conquer

Post by Skill Hunter » Fri Aug 22, 2014 3:56 pm

So am really pissed now we were at war with
The guilde francaice we were attacking them
Cause they already attcked us and tooked our area
So they didnt want to fight just decline after decline i told them they will be banned
Finally i fought malyo37 there leader
We fought only once and i won so we won right we were attacking we could use the same tactics and we will win
But we didnt and they the wont who didnt want to duel ??
But still they won ?? So what did happened they attacked and didnt fight we lost we attacked and they didnt fight we lost too ??

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Re: Guilds and Conquer

Post by Tremblor » Fri Aug 22, 2014 9:21 pm

I appreciate all of the comments and, as always, the responsive Developers. I agree that the conquer system is a mess. But I do recognize that any sort of conquer system is going to be very difficult to plan and implement when people are in different time zones, they may have time to be on the game for 10 minutes but may not be able to commit their full attention to a duel, or a level 55 player may not have any interest in dueling a level 90 player who is challenging them.

Before focusing on guild conquer mechanics, I think it may be wise to take a step back and ask "what is the point of guilds?" and "what will encourage people to join them?" Imagine a group of active, smart, friends who have been playing for a while but are below level 60. Why would they join a guild, when they know they won't be able to beat the top guilds (full of 70+ level players). The guild chat channel is really the only incentive for them to create/join a guild. There needs to be a benefit to being in a guild (their own Beast? A guild market where players can sell/donate unneeded cards to each other? The guild creator getting to choose one stat boost or 'special card' for all of its players?). I'm not sure what that is, but conquest "bragging rights" isn't enough. The top players pretty much know each other well enough to know who's better than who (plus ranking score, to some extent).

As far as conquest mechanics, the more I think about it, the harder it is to come up with good ideas/solutions. If I am online but my opponent never is (or doesn't accept my challenge) that feels like a 'win' to me, but if my opponent is online when I am sleeping, that doesn't feel like it should be a 'loss' for me. So perhaps each battle should have a specific start time (like with tournament)--either be there or lose. But what time should that be--best for whose time zone? Another option would be a push notification of a challenge--"your war opponent has challenged you. You have ten minutes to log in and accept, or your opponent will face an AI opponent in your place." (can the AI use the deck you were using when you logged off?). There needs to be a way for players to feel engaged in the war whenever they are logged in without having to rely on opponent's schedule. That is likely AI opponents--either as a replacement for the one voted opponent, or more generally, as Kaiser suggested -- conquer a territory against AI opponents. If both guilds conquer the same territory (vs. AI), then they can challenge the other guild for it. I don't know if it's feasible to have a mini-tournament start every hour on the hour for one day, and whoever is online at that time from either guild can choose to join (perhaps each member can only enter one hourly tournament, or as many as they want -- both have advantages). I also don't feel good about high-level guilds fighting low-level ones. Not fun for anyone and a waste of time. Make the AI opponents of different difficulties in different territories so only high level guilds will be active in some territories.

So after rambling for a while, my suggestion seems to be (if possible): have territories with differing levels of AI opponents. The first guild to defeat the AI opponents in that territory (maybe one of each race, and a guild member can only defeat one of them?) establishes control of it. If another guild also beats the AI opponents, then they have a one-day tournament/war for it the next day. At the top of every hour that day (12:00, 1:00, etc.), whoever is online from either guild can join. Opponents matched in order of level; winners get three points and advance, losers get one point and can then challenge any other loser for one point (if they accept); anyone can choose to fight a random AI opponent for that territory for one point. (In any given hour/tournament there may be three from one guild and one from the other--you want all to be able to play and contribute as much as they can/want to). Calculate the overall winner of the war/territory either by which guild won more 'hours' or who scored more total points throughout the day.

And my apologies to anyone whom I've challenged without messaging first. I don't do it often, but I know I have done it. After reading Skill and Motylek's discussion, I will no longer.


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Re: Guilds and Conquer

Post by kobubu » Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:13 am

I agree with Tremblor - he's got really good ideas.
Acturally iwould like to see other players playing online like an observer
Especially other matches in guild wars.
MAybe we could see a list of playing games and anyone who wants may join it.
Thank you!

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Re: Guilds and Conquer

Post by studbuns77 » Sat Aug 23, 2014 6:54 pm

k our all time score is messed up now too and guilds still not showing up for battles. maybe once or twice but stalling still and its getting annoying.everyone in our guild want to play and fight and gods of eldhelm also but any others dont fight. even after warning them they will be banned they dont care. its getting boring and frustrating especially when it matters to some of us but not others. Please fix this since only Real guilds are fighting and all others just taking without consequence, and its ruining the gameplay. theres nothing to it just attack and never show up and keep your land and take theirs. and skills right we fight we lost and we didnt fight and lost so whats up with that. ths system isnt consistant just random and no real power or choice if it stays like this. there wont be any need to play. it doesnt matter what we do at this moment so no need to keep trying. please fix this or to frustrating to play conquest when system doesnt work and opponent doesnt show up and score doesnt actually reflect wins/losses correctly. Sorry for rambling and buggin about conquest.

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