Guilds and Conquer

Discussions about the gameplay and critique regarding the current state of the game and it's features.

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1mb4k4
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Re: Guilds and Conquer

Post by 1mb4k4 » Fri Sep 12, 2014 11:58 am

Hey Motylek,

I honestly think that the most polite way in the situation is to start a fight and surrender.
Yes, this may result in a loss of score points which is kind of a problem. So an option to surrender without playing might be a good idea.
I will implement something like this in the next update :)

Regards,

1mb4k4
Posts: 376
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:26 am
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Re: Guilds and Conquer

Post by 1mb4k4 » Mon Sep 29, 2014 3:07 pm

@Darkened and @Motylek

The next update will change the following:
- A guild member who was not seen online for more than 7 days can be expelled by the guild master without voting.
- A guild master can expel a member from the guild without voting when this member is the only member of the guild.
- A guild master will be able to leave the guild at any time, one of the other guild members will be automatically promoted as a master.
- A guild voting will be completed automatically 2 days after it was initiated if it is not settled by the guild members.

Regarding your suggestion for guilds fighting beasts / daily quests fro guilds is a really good one :)
I guess it should be separate from the conquer mode (Which is designed as competition between guilds).
Please, start a new topic regarding this subject and i will move your comments there so we could discuss the matter separately as i will be most likely a big discussion :)

Regards,

betascream
Posts: 65
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Re: Guild Daily Quest

Post by betascream » Wed Oct 01, 2014 3:14 am

Re: Guilds and Conquer
Postby 1mb4k4 » Mon Sep 29, 2014 3:07 pm

@Darkened and @Motylek

The next update will change the following:
- A guild member who was not seen online for more than 7 days can be expelled by the guild master without voting.
- A guild master can expel a member from the guild without voting when this member is the only member of the guild.
- A guild master will be able to leave the guild at any time, one of the other guild members will be automatically promoted as a master.
- A guild voting will be completed automatically 2 days after it was initiated if it is not settled by the guild members.

Regarding your suggestion for guilds fighting beasts / daily quests fro guilds is a really good one :)
I guess it should be separate from the conquer mode (Which is designed as competition between guilds).
Please, start a new topic regarding this subject and i will move your comments there so we could discuss the matter separately as i will be most likely a big discussion :)

Regards,


please needs to count more the inactive members, sometimes just one appear in 2 days and he win 2 x 0, but all my members appear and stay online to duel, but nobody from oponnent are online, so i think just one win 2 x 0 is not enough if the members dont apeear, please put to the system count this.

betascream
Posts: 65
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2014 7:58 pm
In-game user name: betascream

Re: Guild Daily Quest

Post by betascream » Wed Oct 01, 2014 3:15 am

haha RED no good to read

"

please needs to count more the inactive members, sometimes just one appear in 2 days and he win 2 x 0, but all my members appear and stay online to duel, but nobody from oponnent are online, so i think just one win 2 x 0 is not enough if the members dont apeear, please put to the system count this.

1mb4k4
Posts: 376
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:26 am
In-game user name: 1mb4k4

Re: Guilds and Conquer

Post by 1mb4k4 » Wed Oct 01, 2014 9:16 am

We know that if your members are online and the others are not you will win those matches. I do not see any problem when someone comes online fights until 2:0 and then leaves :) This is fair enough.
I forgot to mention that the bug which reflected in only part of the guild elected for a fight is fixed.

kaiser
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Location: Mexico

Re: Guilds and Conquer

Post by kaiser » Fri Oct 03, 2014 6:31 am

Hi everyone

My concern with the conquer mode is related with the unfair paring of enemies, is any way to avoid that, for example:
:!: Think in guild with 2 members: one is level 90 and the other player is level 10. We are going to call it guild A.
:!: There is another for that have 5 players: first is level 95, second is level 91, third is level 90, forth is level 88and fifth is level 87 guild B.
:!: Last guild called C includes: first is 45, second is 37 and third is 30.


First question:
How the guild C can defeat to B? If guild C cannot access to the same skills as players of guild B, there is also a high difference in stats points availables. (Cannot said anything about the cards cause in my own experience I could afirm they could have same possibilities of have better or at least same cards)

Second question:
If guild A face to guild B. How the player level 10 of the guild A, could defeat the weakest player of guild B if it is 87? Imagine both cases if A attack or if B attack.
there should be some kind of algorithm to avoid this situation other wise player level 10 will be always a win for the opposite guild

Third question:
if guild system is focused in conquer mode that mean most of the players will try to join the powerful guild, that will be some kind of monopoly of the best players. So that means that they will rule all the territories?
I do not see any sense to me to have a conquer mode in that case


Random Suggestions that came to my mind :ugeek:
1. To avoid this kind of problems why not to use an avatar rent in the case of differences of levels with 3 options available and random decks and skills. But same level as the opponent, with the rule that always the attacking guild will rent the avatar that will be as high level as the defender player. In the case they match levels will not needed.

2. Use a similar system as the arena mode, random decks, BUT both players WITHOUT SkILLS.

3. Set a conquer mode level maps (same map like different channels) for example one channel for the levels between 99-90 another for 89-80 etc, as the tournaments classifications.

4. Mmmm, I think my brain is drain by the moment, lol.


So I hope some of this ideas could work, I'm open to any constructive commentary. :D

Motylek
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Re: Guilds and Conquer

Post by Motylek » Fri Oct 03, 2014 4:43 pm

Kaiser, I am sorry, but are you serious about that and consequences what are following from it? Do not you see in how big troubles human society is and how dangerous is this way of thinking? Society is currently "plagued" by "twisted correctness", "minorities are ruling over majority", "weak are oppressing strong" and so called "positive discrimination" is lurking at every step. And you want to spoil this great game by same kind of "positive discrimination", which is in fact doom for society, for its natural function and for common sense?

Hero level 10 is NEVER meant to have same chance to win in duel with level 90 and it is logical and natural and wanted outcome. Almost same it is for duel between levels 40 and 80. It can happen that lower level player wins, but when it happens, it means that circumstances were not as they should have naturally been. It means something really strange and unnatural occurred.

Also I want to mention, that beginning players at level 10 are just discovering game. They should be busy about finding relations between basic things in this game and not bothered by guild duels. Everything should come in its proper time. You were also not taught chemistry in kindergarten.

Beginning player can get to level 60-70 really fast thanks to campaigns and I personally find your example with players below level 70 invalid and irrelevant. (I am sorry, this is my personal opinion.) If I would be game developer and you would insist on "fixing this is problem", I would allow joining guild for players only above level 60. This is what I would do if you would insist, but better is to impose no limitations and let people use common sense instead. (Are you going to take knife by sharp end? Are you going to duel against level 90 while you are just level 10? Do you expect to win such duel or at least to have even chances to win for both duelers?)

Game developer is trying however he can to get more players in this game, who are at higher levels (at example introduction of special cards leveling, creating guilds - it is basically higher level game content, ...) and you just came and try to convince others that players should have almost no rewards for leveling up?

Higher level players should have higher probability to win when dueling with lower level players, not to have equal chances. Guilds are high level content, not low level content. Effort to train skill should be rewarded, not discouraged. Things like order, reason, society should be natural to be healthy, not perversely reversed in function. If somebody challenges player who is 20 or more levels higher and he is expecting to have equal chances to win, he is showing marks of ignorance, lack of respect, lack of common sense and maybe even partial insanity.

To your questions:
1) Guild C has no way to win and should not expect it. Guild C should advance in levels, there are plenty of XP and gold "just laying on ground and waiting to pick up" in campaigns. It is wanted outcome, this is not problem.
2) Player at level 10 in guild is children in kindergarten trying to study books for university students - > this is not problem, this is pure nonsense.
3) The more players are in guild, the less share from rewards per person and the harder it is to organize anything (voting). Bigger groups are naturally more susceptible to disorder. Do you remember how both Gods of Eldhelm and Phantoms group had 16+ members? Do you know how many members are present in those guilds now? At least our guild is not accepting every player and I am sure neither does yours.

To your random suggestions:
1. Since this is wanted outcome, there is nothing to solve, but even your proposed solution is making game worse than "virtual problem" it tries to solve. It is again "positive discrimination", which is in its principle unfair. Lower level players just should pick up those XP and gold laying in front of them (campaign) and level up and train.
2. It is again "positive discrimination", which is in its principle unfair. Lower level players just should pick up those XP and gold laying in front of them (campaign) and level up and train.
3. It is point to think about, but not right now. Do you see how many players participate in tournaments at levels 90-99, 80-89? This game needs more higher level players, who are active to even think about it. And no, all those players will not fit into just one guild, so there is not danger that no other guild will have strong high level players.

I am sorry Kaiser, I am quite sure that my comments will not make you happy, but I honestly do not see any points you presented as problem. I see it as wanted and expected outcome, which is also natural.

Best regards
Motylek

kaiser
Posts: 38
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In-game user name: Victor Rivera
Location: Mexico

Re: Guilds and Conquer

Post by kaiser » Sat Oct 04, 2014 5:44 am

Motylek

I just have two words for you:
Never Mind :|
The only idea that have any sense in all the text you "apport" and I think is constructive is to block the conquer mode for high levels, that could help, thank you for that idea :idea:


So if anyone have a CONSTRUCTIVE comment related with the ideas that I present I'll appreciate them.

And also I want to reinforce the main point of all my comments:
If ONE GUILD take control of all the map, I don't see any fun in that.

1mb4k4
Posts: 376
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:26 am
In-game user name: 1mb4k4

Re: Guilds and Conquer

Post by 1mb4k4 » Sat Oct 04, 2014 5:11 pm

Hi kaiser,

I understand your issue. I see it this way, you want to help a buddy who is just starting with the game, to bring him to big battles so he could benefit from being in guild etc, and learn from the good. Unfortunately this is not what guilds are designed for. The guilds are designed as an advanced game feature which is aimed towards high leveled heroes. Your best bet is to have the strongest players in your guild so you can defeat all others guild. From a top player perspective you won't share a guild with a weak player, it just makes no sense. So by playing in a guild you are expected to level up as much as possible to fight among the strongest.

Yes, leveling above level 60 is hard and time consuming. So by being in a successful guild among high level character is some sort of an achievement. It has to be this way and it has to be somewhat hard, just to be fair with the most dedicated players.

In fact i will be glad to see the whole map conquered :) This should be the aim of every guild. This is the ultimate objective of the conquer mode! I guess something cool will happen then :)
Once on the map you will have no rest, you either win or you are pushed out of it.

Regarding guild fights at lower level and the creation of activities aimed towards "younger guilds" are still under consideration. Guild challenge mode or guild daily quests or something similar might be they way to go, we will see. If you have a specific idea, please consider starting a new topic and explain it in details.

Regards,

kaiser
Posts: 38
Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:11 am
In-game user name: Victor Rivera
Location: Mexico

Re: Guilds and Conquer

Post by kaiser » Sun Oct 05, 2014 4:12 am

@1mb4k4:
Understood :) but on that case a have 2 requests.

First. Do you mind to restrict it above level 60 to avoid that guilds that have 1 user with multiaccounts? :x because the system pair with guys with low level and obviously they will not accept the challenges, so is for same time.

Second. I like the idea of a great reward when 1 guild conquer all the map and I agree that will be great. But could be any chance to reset the map after the reward? To retry since the beginning or it will be necessary to take one by one?

Extra doubt. The reward will be one time offer, or is some kind of progressive reward? ;)

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