Guilds and Conquer

Discussions about the gameplay and critique regarding the current state of the game and it's features.

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Motylek
Posts: 153
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Re: Guilds and Conquer

Post by Motylek » Sun Oct 05, 2014 6:21 am

Hello,

Kaiser, was not I saying similar thing like Andrey, just in different words? I even tried to explain in more detailed way "why I think that".

I am sad, that some people do not accept my comments, even when there are valid points. I mean it generally, it is not meant just to Kaiser.

Kaiser, I really think, it is not good to limit guilds by level. What will society become when everything will have to be handled by direction/restriction? Many people are already resigning on common sense and doing restrictions just supports this unfortunate way. (I made example in my previous post about taking knife by sharp end.) Please, consider my opinion without rejecting it immediately, just because it is post from me.

Best regards
Motylek

1mb4k4
Posts: 376
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Re: Guilds and Conquer

Post by 1mb4k4 » Sun Oct 05, 2014 12:13 pm

Hi Kaiser,

Motylek is right, restriction are not a good idea ...
If a player refuses a challenge, the system notices that and the user who declines will loose the battle. If he does not come online the same thing will happen. If he drops, again he will loose. So the only option is to play or at least surrender so he is known as a fair player!

The thing is that what will happen after conquering the entire map is not yet decided. Yes, restarting the map will most likely happen in such case :)

Regards,

Skill Hunter
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Re: Guilds and Conquer

Post by Skill Hunter » Mon Oct 06, 2014 11:02 am

Hi all
I read your comments i still think freedom is over rated and the conquer system is based on challenge system which is not very good i think what kaiser meant is that what if we got one member which is weaker than all the other guild member and our guild was attacking and that member if he fights against any one he will loss so what if he can be left behind and don't fight and that only happened in attacking guild not defending ones and i think it's a good idea to have a few people left behind and don't fight its just that the whole system is not good
Because it seems that when your guild increases its member it become weaker than before
So it's the opposite way
While any guild should be powerful when there number increases
Now i can make my guild with two members and i could beat every one else and took over the entire map it's not a big thing to me
Two members will always be online and won't loose is impossible to beat even if we attacked a guild that have a member stronger than us he will win once but we will win all the other match
This is the reason i shrieked my guild into 5 members
But it's no fun so you are giving us a choice it's either we have nice normal guild with 8 or 10 or 6 members which are friends and like the game or it's two or three very strange members who will conquer the map
Now look
If i made my guild with only me and ebichu and go at war we will win any battle against any one the only thing that
Beta guild can do is only one thing and that just beta guild can do no other guild will even match us
They must make a choice it's either loose to us the entire map or have two members guild like tweaked and daive to fought us and try to make it even but where is the fun in that
It will be fun for me and ebichu and tweaked and daive but every one else won't like it
Look studbuns has left the game cause he couldn't win against any of beta guild member he is good player against other members but weak against beta guild so he apologise and left the guild and than left the game so did kobubu and arc and unikorn and sac and others so i think the conquer system is not working
Andrey you made people leaves in this conquer mode and they are not a weak players they just simply can't win against some other players
The conquer mode in my opinion should be a strategy mode so if i may suggest few things
1 a big guild should not be weak
To have this option i think that should not all members in the guild fight in battle you should make like a moving members like members can move from territory to another and defend it or attack the near territory to them like one move each 12 hours
2 to have this thing there must be hp to the guild
What i mean of this that if i was defending or attacking a territory i shouldn't keeps on my hp for one reason and that because some players are just too strong like am level 90 now i beat motylek and beta and zoiseti and nico and vanessa and padonline all the time so if all six attacked me alone i will beat them alone so it sucks if it was in conquer mode we should have guild health point and it increases by the number of members in that territory and every territory has its own hp you can increasing it by some other currency not gold some thing else that could won by conquer mode and still count your level and skills and hp with it
That way you must have more guild members and they must be strong
3 to do that and that necessary you just can't attack any guild or any territory in the map you must attack the territory near you and the territory that left without members can be taken by any guild that didn't have a spot in the map or you makes one territory a pass like a bridge for the map to all the guild that don't have a spot in the map
I really would like to know your thoughts about my suggestions
Thank you for your great work

1mb4k4
Posts: 376
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Re: Guilds and Conquer

Post by 1mb4k4 » Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:54 am

Hi Skill Hunter,

I will start in a reverse order :)

I like the idea of attacking only territories next to yours! I will do it :)
Yes, a guild can claim only one territory without fighting, which should be changed to "should no be able to claim new territory without fighting if it already has one".

You shrink your guilds not because it is better but because it is sustainable. I mean larger guilds will have inactive members.

I bet you can't take the entire map with two people :) Having two active members makes not difference vs a guild with 6 active members. If you have less people your guild will fall down in the score ranking. If you insist on that, please try to take the entire map! But i think It is not that easy as it seems :)

You see larger guilds are not weaker than smaller. It is the same. It really depends on how active your members are!

Regards,

Skill Hunter
Posts: 48
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In-game user name: Skill Hunter

Re: Guilds and Conquer

Post by Skill Hunter » Tue Oct 07, 2014 11:09 pm

Hello andrey :)
I think you are half right and half wrong :|
We did have 15 members and i had to shrink it down to 9 members because the inactive players :(
But we couldn't stand a chance against a guild with 2 members one of them was level 91 and very strong he can kill almost the half of my guild and the other member was a guest who wasn't online :evil:
sure i would have won against him if i had a fight with him but he didn't vote for me only for the players he could won against and he did we had to do the same strategy to take back one of the two territory he took :(
But that is not the real issue
The issue was how to beat beta guild with powerful members and active ones :?:
They where killing my guild members and cornered us in south west of the map and it's all ok it's part of the game i liked that :D
But the sad thing is the answer for how to beat them is not what i hoped :(
it wasn't to increase your guild members or increase the power of your guild members no the easiest way was to expel the members that was losing against beta guild by that way beta guild will forced to fight against us the ones who could have a chance to beat them they were having 9 members so what we make our guild members 7 so that the powerful ones could fight two times against them and won the territory now the problem is i wouldn't expel my friends who i know long time ago i brought them from the NA server to the Europe server just to have fun and have more fights i convinced them to be active and join my guild and start new in a fresh server to us most players had a ranking there but didn't care they just wanted to play more with other players so i really couldn't do that but they already knew :(
When they see that only 3 members or 4 members are winning against any one we fighting against and they lose to them and cost us the territory they get sad they can't get at high skills fast and they can't just don't fight and if we were defending there are really nothing you can do just waiting for them to attack you and they were very good players they just didn't win against other few players :cry:
So one by one the were leaving the guild and quitting not because they weren't active no not because they didn't like the the game i thought well
The survival for the stronger its ok then :D
But i realized that each time we got our guild smaller it got stronger and i assure you i can take the map with only spawn or only ebichu in my side but that mean i have to expel my other friends and won't do that just to take the map it's not just about winning its about having fun too winning some losing some :roll:
I get we maybe had a few members that was weaker than beta guild members but the solution should not be expel them to get stronger no that's wrong i get if the guild was inactive they must be weak guild we are active guild with active members
We got 5 members now am afraid that i must make them 4 to have absolute victory against beta guild with 7 members
Cause one of my members are weaker than them so if they attacked they will have two fights against him so they will have two wins we need to have extra two just to equal them do you see where is the problem one weak member could cost you the entire war and he is actually very strong but he just can't beat them the only way to win is to expel him and i just don't think that fair it's either losing or expelling members i know you don't think that the number of the build members make no different but trust me it does and trust me in conquer mode it's the opposite way of how it should be :cry: :o
You are right about the ranking of my guild it will drop but why would i care ?? There are no reward i don't want to have another members cause they will and for sure be weaker than the rest of us
And don't worry sooner or later am sure beta will make her guild with 5 or 6 members soon than i will forced to make my guild with 3 or 2 members and then conquering the map will take some time but believe me it will be easy and that what am afraid about that little members guild can always beats high members guild cause there are no needs for members much it's not like we are donating to the guild and we need more resources or we have empty spaces we need to fill it
Oh by the way i still think freedom is over rated ;)
I know you are doing a great job and am really thankful for that reading my massage and answering it is enough to know you are doing a great work and you always trying to make this game greater than before :D :) :mrgreen:
but i want to tell you that the challenge mode required two players online so you find some one to duel with
The conquer mode is the same but you have to fight with certain player and to have them both online and playing the game at the same time is little hard now our last battle against beta guild we had 8 battles but we only had one while all our members are active and online some time in the day they just didn't met and the difference between timezones make it little tough and that why i think freedom is over rated what do you think ?? :?: :?: :roll:

Thank you for your great work

Aleatory
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Re: Guilds and Conquer

Post by Aleatory » Tue Dec 02, 2014 5:49 am

Just started playing guilds and conquer last week.

I do think the current system favors a guild of two high level players. Guilds really are made for higher level players who have finished the campaign, so I'm not against guilds of high level players, but these two person guilds are not really cooperative play - just a two player power alliance.

The idea of having at least two members to participate in conquer makes sense. But maybe there should be limit to how much a small guild can do or participate in.

What if a guild is only able to conquer # of territories less than or equal to the # of guild members?

Thus, a guild of only two members can only have two territories, and a guild of five can conquer up to five territories.

This still allows for two friends who only want to be in a guild themselves to still participate in conquer mode, but would hopefully promote guilds to recruit and train new members to help defend their territories and attack new ones.

Just my thoughts for the moment. Let me know what you think.
~Aleatory

Motylek
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Re: Guilds and Conquer

Post by Motylek » Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:44 am

Hello,

For me it looks like a good idea, which is also logical. However I would set "binding factor" to 1.5 rounded down.
2 players - maximum 3 provinces
3 players - maximum 4 provinces
4 players - maximum 6 provinces
5 players - maximum 7 provinces
6 players - maximum 9 provinces
7 players - maximum 10 provinces
8 players - maximum 12 provinces

Having guild required to have at least 12 members to be able to conquer all provinces seems too much demanding for me. It could be adjusted later, when more players will play this game, but for now, I am not sure, if there would be enough players to keep guilds active while being so large.

Best regards
Motylek

1mb4k4
Posts: 376
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Re: Guilds and Conquer

Post by 1mb4k4 » Thu Dec 04, 2014 12:31 am

@Aleatory It is a nice idea. I like it and i am considering it!
@Motylek yes this is a feasible option.

What about rising the minimum guild members to 3 or more?

Regards,

Motylek
Posts: 153
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Re: Guilds and Conquer

Post by Motylek » Thu Dec 04, 2014 7:24 am

Hello Andrey,

Rising minimum guild members number to anything beyond 2 looks artificial to me without natural reason for it. However setting number of guild members to hold certain maximum number of provinces is logical and it shows "resources binding" to manage and guard provinces. Historically, resources binding was one of factors for Rome empire to fall or also for lose of Axis in WWII. Without opening western front in France, Germans would go through Russia and stop until shaking hands with Japans.

Territory binding force/resources is natural and understandably logical, but I do not see any logical reason for requirement of minimum guild members beyond 2.

If some more restrictions should be added to guilds, I would do it like with tournaments, only registered players could participate. It is also logical. When person apply to any guild, club, organization, he is always officially registering and gets official ID and recognization in club/guild/organization/etc. He can not be there incognito.

And another thing, guild leader should have hero with minimum level 60 or even better 70, if it is not demanding too much. Guild leader should be some experienced person who knows what he is doing. When there is some problem between guilds, guild leaders are supposed to be contact points and they should be able to act responsibly. Inexperienced player as guild leader, who does not know what he is really doing is painful to communicate with or if not painful, it is at least time consuming. (my personal experience) There is no need for level restriction of members, but guild leader is function with responsibilities.

Best regards
Motylek

betascream
Posts: 65
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Re: Guilds and Conquer

Post by betascream » Fri Dec 05, 2014 5:45 pm

wow Aleatory i like this idea!!

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