IMMOBILIZE CARD (Human rogue)

Discussions about the gameplay and critique regarding the current state of the game and it's features.

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kobubu
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Re: IMMOBILIZE CARD (Human rogue)

Post by kobubu » Fri Sep 19, 2014 11:20 am

You guys really need to ban ultimate combo with immobilize ASAP)
Let me just show you how we play it in Eldhelm
1. royal blood + any shit
2. Shadow dominance IV
150 dmg, no block, no mana, no regeneration, your cards are flushed,
3. Orcish poison
80 dmg no block no regeneration - you can't do anything cuz you have no mana
4. Orcish poison
80 dmg no block, no regeneration - you are already dead,
So totally there is 310 damage without any chance to block it within 3 turns
Repeat this any time you play agains elf keeper

Yes, that is very imbalance to elves keepers, cause our mythical buff cards reduce only 10 additional damage.
And please stop yelling that 'each class should has its own privileges'

This combo should be banned - once and forever!

Did you really made this game for only to see this combination played ultimate amount of times?

Kotori Acadius
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Re: IMMOBILIZE CARD (Human rogue)

Post by Kotori Acadius » Sun Sep 21, 2014 10:44 am

After joining the european server and looking up the ones who suggest nerfing the Human Rogue it comes to my attention that these fellow players are playing mostly as an Elf Mage, this Discussion has now become a little biased for me, You "the Elf Mages" are clear upset over the fact that the Human Rogue is designed to be mainly your nemesis, with the negate regeneration and all.

However I don't see you complain when the odds are in your favor in other words Arena Mode! YOU the Elf Mage really thrive in this environment. in this area your regeneration is unhindered by nothing at all except from a fellow elf mage, these Players are constantly getting victory after victory over other classes. since are arsenal to prohibit your healing is taking away this give a devastating advantage.

while you regenerate the pitiful damage we can muster from this Horrible thought out game mode which you clearly excell in. Now if your taken out of your hunting grounds aka "Arena Mode" you are faced with a higher possibility of defeat. This is were the Rogue comes into play, you despise him because he puts your Win/Lose ratio at risk, since you have difficulty beating a character WHO WAS CREATED to be your counter, you come here to slander him and try to get him weaker so you can continue your unopposed rampage in the Arena and in Challenge mode. it's funny though, I thought the orcs were supposed to be the killing machines because clearly this isn't true. The Elf Mage IS :lol:

Final Case and point I stand by with what I been saying in the the beginning:
- The Human Rogue is fine how he is now, Crippling combos finally do Cripple all the opponents now
- Every Character has a particular role they specialize in
- The Same strategy Won't always work
- You Win some , you lose some get over it



Oh one more thing essence team you guys really have to do something with Arena Mode it's just a Slaughter House for Sheep

○Butcher = Elf Mage
○Sheep = Everyone else

Motylek
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Re: IMMOBILIZE CARD (Human rogue)

Post by Motylek » Sun Sep 21, 2014 12:04 pm

Hello,

@Kotori Acadius
- Nobody in this forum is suggesting "nerfing Human Rogue". Theme of this thread is only discussion about Shadow Dominance combo. Theme is not about making Human Rogue weaker overall.

- This thread is really focused on Shadow Dominance combo and I do not see any reason why to discuss Arena mode here. If you have any issues with Arena, please open new thread dedicated to Arena instead of using dirty tricks again and trying with any manipulation that you know to distract focus from theme. You are really trying to destroy cultivated discussion by any and all means. Not to mention that your statement is not wholly true. If you look into my statistics, I participated in 202 challenges and 28 arena duels. But from those 28, more than 50% were duels in "old ranking game mode", not duels in Arena mode. But enough of this here, please open new thread for it, if you want to discuss it.

Kotori, please stop trolling. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29) Honestly, I did not see even single post in this thread from you, which was really discussing on theme. In fact, you are trying by any and all options you have, to disrupt discussion. Please stop this. If you do not know it, trolls are not welcome in any discussion anywhere on internet.

@game developers
Also, I still did not receive any response from game developers to my posts. I would like to hear their answer to my previous posts and especially this one point, which I posted while ago, but Kotori tried to bury it.
Please take any strategic/tactical turn based game for 2 players, which you know and then imagine what impact in that game would be, if one of players could once per game take 2 consecutive turns without opponent being able to interfere with it. If that player will use it wisely, it is auto-win. That combo is definitely imbalanced. In game of 2 players, taking away opponents turn has same effect like adding one turn for himself.
This combo was not designed so strong when you wanted to make Rogue equal with others 1.5 year ago. It become overpowered 0.5 year ago when you introduced leveling of special cards and despite you never intended it to be combo with more than 1 turn duration, it is effectively working as 2 turns duration combo.

Best regards
Motylek

Kotori Acadius
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Re: IMMOBILIZE CARD (Human rogue)

Post by Kotori Acadius » Sun Sep 21, 2014 8:10 pm

@ Motylek
Actually nerfing the rogue's Immobilize Combo is really nerfing him over all since Shadow Dominance, Orcish Poison, Royal Prayer are for the most part are strongest combos for the Rogue, if you change his special you are indeed changing his over all performance. Shadow dominance IV is also are trump combo. for elf mage it is in comparison a devastating combo since for one your Mythical buff card doesn't help you against it and for another it cancels heal yadda yadda, ( i feel like a scratch cd), but for the others classes the can really dumb it down to say maybe 90 or for the elf range has the possibility to block it.


As for what you call tricks and being a troll is purely irrelevant to me, the topic is biased the accusing party isn't a diverse consensus, You all have Elf Mage as your main. I'm also not deviating from the topic, I'm showing you examples that if the rogue's Immobilize Combo is game braking like he's being accused of he would be on top of every listing and category in eldhelm proving that he indeed needs to be revised, however he isn't it always an Elf species. That proves he Isn't THE OVER-POWERED ONE NO?

Also the taking multiple turns isn't such a big deal many other card games have this same concept. If a Recall correctly MOTYLEK you are a Magic The Gathering player doesn't the blue mana deck have a card that let's the player take multiple turns in a row? So aren't you familiar/ used to this tactic already?



But Really Why I'm A wasting my time convincing you. Your dead set on taking down the the Rogue that you demonize any who try to defend them, but still i care for him and your hostility towards me doesn't faze me, there isn't any dirty tricks being used like you say, I just collected data like in any debate does and presented it, now if I came here and started slandering the accusing party ,(Motylek and the rest), and bringing there personal life,religion,and there intelligence into question,then you have all right to call me a troll and using tricks like you constantly accuse me of.

F.Y.I
MOTYLEK you however are indeed using these dirty tricks against me, it isn't I who is doing it. Your first reply towards me was questioning my sanity and intelligence by calling me calling me a savage, then you discredit my words by accusing me of using valid points that do hold some interest to the topic as tricks,then after naming me a troll a direct attack to my personal self...

you Motylek who preached about civility and oppose personal slander, are a hypocrite because your using those "dirty tricks" as you call them, to discredit me and my reasons for opposing the topic.


all in all let bigons be bigons, I have no more to add to this discussion and will await essence team decision on the matter

1mb4k4
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Re: IMMOBILIZE CARD (Human rogue)

Post by 1mb4k4 » Sun Sep 21, 2014 9:07 pm

@Motylek
I indeed missed this discussion for some reason :( You indeed have a point here. To come with an adequate answer i will need some time to consult about this situation. So i guess we will come with an answer in the next few days.
Looking over the things mentioned here by @Kotori Acadius he is also right that this thing is not that heavily exposed as it is not easy to exploit against other players. At least not by most of them. You are also right that when we added the levels of the special cards we never thought of such issue an issue as our logic was that higher level special cars with higher level combos will be used with higher level heroes applying the same proportional effect.
The AI is not really a good benchmark for character strength. The AI is universal and is not character specific. It handles some characters better than others and it is good in some situations and bad in others. The AI handles "crippling" situations, like blocked areas and low EP really bad, which is expected from a brainless algorithm :)
Well, your campaign experiment is really interesting though, according to our stats the Human Rogue's campaign "Rise of the bastard" is one of the campaigns that takes most time from players to complete - slightly more than other characters to finish theirs (on average). So you are looking from a narrow highly skilled player's perspective :) This does not mean that we are "closing our eyes" on this matter. It means that only high skilled players are able to exploiting this issue and it remains unnoticed from most of the players, i guess.
Thank you for the exposed problem. Please, keep digging for similar issues. I bet you can find similar strategies with other the characters, especially against the AI. :)

Kotori Acadius
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Re: IMMOBILIZE CARD (Human rogue)

Post by Kotori Acadius » Sun Sep 21, 2014 10:23 pm

Its good to finally get a response from the team and also to get my points validated instead of being slander, any who usually when a developer takes a closer look into something it mostly results to a change of sorts. So in case you do go in favor of Motylek and rest, I like to propose a few suggestions for the inevitable nerfing of the Human Rogue.

These are my suggestions for balance=

○Leave the Rogue as is, however change the combo "Retreat and Protection" damage reduction from 11 to 24 that way every character has the ability to completely block Shadow Dominance and these cards are easy to get all you need is buff card "Toughness", "Evade" , "Retreat", which is an epic card and two elite cards.

○Remove the Dispel effect from Shadow Dominance and leave everything else the same. That way our opponents still have there regeneration cards or Mystify still in play and have at least some protection from the follow-up attack.


These are the Only two Options I Feel that are fair for both sides, either one or the other because if both are implemented then we should just hand over a cane and service dog to the Human Rogue because he's become fully handicapped.

kaiser
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Re: IMMOBILIZE CARD (Human rogue)

Post by kaiser » Tue Sep 23, 2014 10:05 am

To many complains about the poor human rogue. Just let them be :D

Guys everyone is commenting since your perspectives and you are not being objectives. For example:
Skill Hunter is defending the card because his main is a rogue.
Motylek you are opposing because your main is a keeper.
Kotori Arcadius I dunno which is your main, but seems to be a rogue.

I'm not sure but, I think must of the persons who complain about this immobilize card are playing keepers. I could tell you since my perspective as an Orc player I cannot complain about that card. In my opinion is like a combo`s breaker if you use it alone; if you play it with a combo it my opinion must to be an amazing combo because you just could play it ones.

As an orc player as far as I can remember just like 3 players use immobilize with the shadow dominance combo vs me :shock: is really obviously when they try to do it, so is very easy to break that combo as an orc. The effect of shadow dominance like the reduce of regeneration do not affect me cause for next turns I set one blood festival, the attack reduce neither if I set at least I shattering strike and the defense reduction less because as an orc we have just 2 good cards for defense increase, the hit and the reduction of my EP is the only that matter to me, also if they dispel the field is much better for me xD


In my opinion the card should be remain in the way it is now, is not needed to be nerfed neither the combos.

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